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Vampire loss fix in 5.8 not working for me :(

Still losing 8-10 miles a day. My car normally charges to 183 (M60) when I get home from work in the evening. By morning it is always down to the mid 170s. Parking at work for 10 hours it loses another 5-8. Energy Saving mode is set and I do notice a slow startup on the dash and 17 screen. Anyone else having vampire loss issue with 5.8?

OK, so I received a response now from the Tesla Nordic service-manager... He states that from the data they have gathered from my car, the total loss per day is only 2 miles. He also states that the calculations on rated miles will differ by as much as 10-15 miles from "warm" (evening) to "cold" (morning) car.

I REALLY have a hard time comprehending this data, thus I have asked for the actual data to verify...

1. Why then is the rated miles on S85/P85 not identically 10-15 miles lower from "warm" to "cold" car?

2. Why am I not regaining those "lost" miles when my car is heating up again in the morning? I have no better "wattage per mile" in the morning than normally...

3. Also, as the drain has been apparent from September, where temperatures were in the 50s, I can hardly accept this would call for a "cold" car?

I am not saying Tesla is trying to dodge this entire issue by submitting false data, and thus I will let you guys know as soon as I receive the data so that I can properly verify them. Currently I am not seeing the logic here though........

Now I'm confused, after averaging 0.5/mi/hour my 60 slept today for 26 hours and consumed only 2 miles of rated range in a 45' garage.

@wayne -Maybe Tesla slipped a fix out to your car.

Hmmm...didn't hear anyone at the door :)
Release is 5.8 (1.49.22). Do you think this was updated ?

Rate of loss seems to vary over time and not necessarily in the same direction. I charged my S60 to 80% and started recording rated and ideal miles at various times/ Here is what I observed on rate of loss over 42 hours with temperature in mid 40s to mid 50s (first number is rated miles, number in brackets is ideal miles):

0-11 hours 0.7 mi/hr (0.9 mi/hr)
11-19 hours 0.5 mi/hr (0.8 mi/hr)
19-24 hours 0.25 mi/hr (0 mi/hr)
24-33 hours 0 mi/hr (0.1 mi/hr)
33-38 hours 0.6 mi/hr (0.4 mi/hr)
38-42 hours 0 mi/hr (0 mi/hr)

Overall my miles dropeed from 156 rated miles to 140 rated miles over 42 hours, or from 175 ideal miles to 155 ideal miles over 42 hours.

Temperature makes a difference. Last four parking sessions for
VIN 09236:

Loss
2 mi/10 hrs = 0.2 at 70F
3 mi/9 hrs = 0.3 at 65F
11 mi/15 hrs = 0.7 at 25F
12 mi/10 hrs = 1.2 at 27F

Even when warm, the loss of 5-7 miles a day isn't great. When cold, the loss of 29 miles a day is disappointing.

1-3 miles per day on my P85, depending on how often I check on her with the phone app.
5.8 (1.49.22)

The data referenced from Tesla was gathered from the 1. of November to the 20., with temperatures in the 25-30s. According to Tesla, my REAL loss was 2 miles per day, and not the number of miles that was stated.

Again, I have a really hard time accepting this statement, but as it comes from the Service manager of the entire Scandinavian market I guess it is viable.

As referenced above, my questions remain;

1. Why then is the rated miles on S85/P85 not identically 10-15 miles lower from "warm" to "cold" car?

2. Why am I not regaining those "lost" miles when my car is heating up again in the morning? I have no better "wattage per mile" in the morning than normally...

3. Also, as the drain has been apparent from September, where temperatures were in the 50s, I can hardly accept this would call for a "cold" car?

I have not yet received the data I asked Tesla to supply me to document their statements, but as soon as I do I will certainly forward them to you guys.

By other words; IF Tesla´s official response to me is accurate, most of us S60-owners does not have an actual loss, merely a difference in calculation on remaining mileage from S85 to S60 that could probably be solved by a software update... AGAIN, I am having a VERY hard time accepting this, but official data from my vehicle documenting a real loss of only 2 miles per day would make me accept this as a bug as opposed to a technical error at least....

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Tesla should just provide a display of remaining charge. If you start out at say 80 kwh and it drops to 79.5 kwh over eight hours, you would know exactly how much you lost without thinking about how rated miles are calculated.

I don't know if cold weather would muck with this measurement as well but it seems like the best way to objectively measure the loss to me...

I have a S60 with the 5.8 installed. It has been sitting outside for 52 hours in temps ranging from 63F-25F in Denver and has lost 15 miles of range so far. It appears to be doing better with the 5.8.

@lygren I'm with you. The info T is providing does not make sense given #2.
For your tracking, my vin is 9803 and another data point that probably does not factor in but may be interesting to collect is wifi or no wifi. In my case car is in enclosed garage with strong wifi signal.

Ideal storage temps for a Lithium ion battery is probably close to refrigerator temps. So really at 45 degree temp is probably ideal. But when you look at range, it's going to be really really low. It's not the cold battery storing power. It's the ability of the cold battery to deliver power until it warms up.

I will look tomorrow, but I thought we had some power gauges in kWh, not miles...

I thought my 40/60 had about 6 miles/day of vampire loss but it turned out that was because I was comparing a start with a warm battery (right after charging or right after driving) with a cold battery the next day.

Now, comparing cold with cold, I get 2 miles/day.

In my case, cold means 45-50F.

Another observation that makes the Tesla theory/explanation of "cold" and "warm" battery hard to comprehend;

Yesterday night (I was home late...), I charged my car to its FULL 350 KM ideal range. This morning, about 7 hours later, the display read 340 KM. By other words, the good old 0,8-0,9 mile per hour loss.

Then, for the sake of Teslas argument, I connected the charging cable again - and guess what; 2 hours and 58 minutes remaining until full.........

By other words, the statement about actually loosing only 2 miles a day is getting quite hard to comprehend here..... WHY then, would the car require a full charge of the "lost" miles overnight provided the car was fully charged just before?

I did read once that the car would automatically dismiss some of the charge over time when fully charged to preserve battery-time, thus I am leaving this as a viable explanation for now... Anyhow, I am submitting this issue to the Tesla representative I am in contact with and hopefully he will be able to provide me with an answer.

Another, and I think more accurate, data point:

After 3 days, with the battery at garage temp (about 50F) for all measurements, I lost 10 miles.

I did wake it at 2 days and may have inadvertently woken one or twice when turning on my iPad and iPhone when the Tesla app was still active.

You could have a faulty 12V battery...

As I've said before, I have an S60 with 5.8 and a vin in the 9000s. I've reset my instrument panel and touchscreen and tried leaving the car for 10, 24 and 48 hours (which is tough when my other car is a Honda CR-V!).

Left overnight, 10 hours, 50 degree garage, lost 6 miles of rated range.

Left for 24 hours, 50 degree garage, lost 10 miles of rated range.

Left for 48 hours, 50 degree garage, lost 15 miles of rated range.

Definitely loses less/hour over time, but still higher than the 85s seem to be experiencing.

Also, this is essentially the same vampire loss I was experiencing overnight with 4.5 (I didn't do the 24 and 48 hour tests with 4.5).

TeslaLandShark:

I totally agree, I don't know why vehicle manufactures refuse to simply show battery charge level (either in % or in KWh). I don't think any of them do this and I don't understand why.

It would simplify a lot of conversations -

Interesting, why the disparity? I received 5.8 (.24) a couple of weeks ago and the loss seemed still unchanged and high like it was in 4.5. Did not get around to trying reboot. Then went in for Annual maint. Got (.25). Got a new 12V battery (I am Sig 96 85kwh so early and battery was never a problem). Of course that caused a reboot, I lost reverse mirror settings and trip counters, but nothing else, strange. Now I measure about 4 miles a day. DC area, temps running 30-45. Tried wireless off and on no difference. I Don't get the diff with the 60's.

Just spoke to Queens SC about my S60 losing about 10 miles over an 8 hours period (~35 degree). The consensus from the technicians was that it was an "excellent" range loss due to the cooler weather.

As suspected, the car needs to keep the battery at a certain temperature (thereby using juice to keep it warm). The drain has nothing to do with my 12V battery. So the colder weather is the culprit for the continuing drain (close to 4.5 level).

On the bright side, during the first two nights of receiving the 5.8 update, the car only loss 1 mile of range overnight when the temperature was in the 60's.

We'll have to wait till spring to validate the 5.8 fix for the drainage issue...

In addition, my 90% charge had been fluctuating by about 5 miles depending on my driving pattern. I used about 30% more energy during the weekend due to spirited driving and my range was reduced by 5 miles.

Then over the next three days I average about 310 Wh/m and my range went back up by 5 miles.

So the range algorithm does take into account for the last 100 miles or so of driving pattern. The range estimate is also much more accurate than previous version of the software. My morning commute of 24 miles used up 25 miles of range. It used to take 9 additional miles off the range.

I have a S40/60 and saw no improvement with vampire loss after the 5.8 upgrade, so still losing about 1 mile an hour. But yesterday when the temps were in low 30s all day, I think I lost close to 2-3 miles an hour, just not sure. It's even colder today, so will see how much it loses sitting in 30 degrees in Portland.

@Mathew98 that doesn't make sense given what the 85 owners are experiencing. 85 owners, regardless of location, seem to be losing much less energy.

@hillcountryfun, I spoke to Tesla service. Issue is that the rated range (or state of charge) is never an absolute measurement of battery chemical energy. It is an assessment of voltage and current. When the battery pack is cold, it will show a different apparent state of charge because it will not supply power as readily as when warm. So they told me it can look like a vampire loss when actually during driving the rated range might not drop for the first few miles because as the battery pack warms up it spoofs the state of charge measurement.

So, vampire loss needs to be measured at 70F or so to be indicative, it sounds like, of ACTUAL range loss in the vehicle.

@DTsea provided the best explanation of the sleep/range loss issue for 5.8 so far. I believe most of the 60/85 owners who reported successful sleep/drain issue are from warmer climates.

Based on my observations in the driving / charging cycles since the 5.8 release, the range calculation is much more accurate and my daily round trip utilizes less energy. I would typically end up with 10 - 15 miles extra range remaining at the end of each day (when compared to 4.5).

So the colder temperature may be the culprit in masking the effects of the sleep function for 5.8.

If TM officially offer the explanation then it would alleviate the angst from owners with perceived battery drain issue.

Cold as such does not drain the battery. Added warming needs and winter road conditions with increased drag do, however.

@Brian H - We'll have to disagree unless other owners can provide a better explanation with anecdotal observations.

I would like S60 owners in warmer climates to chime in.

My problem here is that the 60kWh seemingly drains while the 85kWh does not. When I ordered my S60 I never received any information on the drain being greater on the S60 than the S/P85. The only difference was supposed to be mileage and power.

As such, if it turns out the 60kWh-version draws far more idle-power than the 85kWh -Tesla- will have a problem...

I have tested charging the vehicle up to 80% as well as 100%, and the explanation from Tesla regarding the different calculations in cold and warm conditions simply does not add up. Why does the remaining charging-time, which is clearly an indication of remaining kWh, and NOT based on driving-habits (provided I use the Ideal setting), cold or warm car etc., clearly indicate a loss of power?

Tesla has officially stated my car only looses 1 mile per day based on their readings from the car, whereas my actual loss is about 1 mile per HOUR - based then on the charge required to obtain the provided milage.

I am still on to Tesla regarding this issue, and as they are not willing to show me the actual data from the vehicle they have to somehow prove to me my S60 is not draining more than a similar S or P85.......

Mathew;
Ask Tesla, or any battery engineer. Batteries like being cold when not in use. It does not drain charge or affect range.

I tried the trick of turning energy saving feature off and on and rebooting in between. That seems to have helped. Here is what I did:

1. Check to make sure energy saving is on. Turn it off and reboot MCU by holding down scroll wheels.

2. When MCU comes back up, turn energy saving back on and reboot MCU again.

Since I did this last night, I have lost 5 miles in the last 20 hours and temp in my garage has been in high 30s (outside temp has been between 8 and -5F). I will continue to keep an eye on the car.

@Brian - You are referring to long term storage when the car/battery is not in use.

All the S60 owners are referring to the cold weather affecting the range (drain seems to accelerate) in between daily usage.

So far no engineers had been able to provide any satisfactory answers yet.

You blindly state the LI ION battery likes the cold weather, thereby reducing the rated range by 10 miles over an 8 hours period while you are at work. No owners would be happy to hear this statement.


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