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Where are the charging stations?

It seems a good time, since the Model S is being released, to comminicate about new charging station. There are only level 2 's around Chicago, but not many. By Gurnee Mills Mall, and some of our Walgreens and Walgreens corporate here. There are more popping up in some garages in the city. It has begun....

The future of public charging stations: "SAE DC Level 3 charging has not been determined but the standard as it now exists has the potential 200–600 V DC at a maximum of 400 A (240 kW)". Now we are cooking.... 100+ miles of range (50% charge of 85KW at 85% efficiency) takes 25 minutes. Only

See this wiki for details on J1772: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

Since Tesla is on the SAE J1772 committee and DC Level 3 is a new standard, perhaps this is the SuperCharge, or at least a subset of it? At high DC voltage/amperage the connector physical design becomes non-trivial.

TM claims 160 miles in ½ hr, IIRC. And Elon called the SAE standards "crap". Hence its own crapless version.

I downloaded Recargo on my iPhone and filtered out all charging stations except Tesla (under Settings). It shows around 25 stations between Orange County and San Francisco, but I'm not sure what a Tesla charging station means in this context. Can anyone enlighten the group?

Some of the ones shown are Tesla dealers, some are private residences, and some are hotels or parking structures. I didn't see any Tesla Superchargers listed on first glance.

@electricblue

Our Walgreens were free at first as well. I wonder who sets these prices and if they are raising the price because it is in Highland Park? That's not cool, if they are.

@BrianH - yes I heard Elon's comments. Agreed. My point is: for the non-Tesla world, how are their standards evolving (perhaps influenced to integrate some or all of Tesla'a arguably better ideas, and how can we best use the older standards to charge using existing or soon to be installed public infrastructure?

Are there opportunities for 3rd party adapters etc. to get the best out of public infrastructure charges that are worth buying?

For example, downtown Portland OR has quite a few Level1 and 2 public (Free) chargers. I would hope that as battery capacities grow they might upgrade to the Level 3 DC fast charger and at least give us a usable dose of power if parked for 45-60 minutes. Not as good as a Supercharger, but hey.... the are free and in a nearby shopping area with free parking and free charging!

This is probably not exactly what people are looking for, but stay tuned as more of these free apps will pop up. Tesla mentioned that their stations are going to be FREE for Tesla Owners.

Smart Phone app for charging ideas is:
RECARGO
and
PlugShare

There are more, but these have ratings, and lots of information about the particular location.

Apparently even Teslas superchargers are "Next Level" Chargers as well. The Level 3 charger (Blink/Ecotality) just installed draws about 120 amps. The Tesla Superchargers draw 250 amps. That is crazy. I also heard that when hooked up to TM's DC Charger, it bi-passes the onboard converters.

@PilotSteve just to give you an update, Ecotality had their Nissan Leaf hooked up to the level 3 today. I believe that was the final test. The level 2's seem to be functional, but non of the chargers have been officially commissioned. I will keep you posted.

As far as upgrading the level 1 and 2s to 3s.... I don't think it will be all that easy. The ones I looked at on the drive to Chicago were are 208 volt 30 amp single phase. They did not run a conduit large enough to feed the charger for the wire to be upgraded (size and count) and it is out of a 120/208 volt source. To upgrade they would have to completely rerun the feeder from a 277/480 volt 3 phase source with larger pipe and more larger wires.

are = all

@Sudre That is correct.

Does anyone know about/ have an opinion about ChargePoint charging stations (for which you apparently must have a prepaid card to use)?

You have to have a card to use any system. There is a number on the charger you can call to use them. I don't know how it works since I have not used any of them yet but I did drive by a bunch and look.

@swmedland:

You didn't see any Tesla superchargers in the app because there are none. The first one will be at Harris Ranch. I believe that one going live is part of the announcement Elon expects to make next month.

Chargepoint requires a free account. You can unlock the charger with the card, or your smart phone. Pricing is up to the owner. Some free, some paid. Mapping is great, and you get realtime status on smarphone or desktop. Plenty of consumption history reports. Good stuff.

While superchargers have a benefit of a faster "refill" they also wear out the battery because of high current used to change the battery.
Tesla clearly states that superchargers are not for everyday use.

This is debated amongst the people I talk to. Some say unless you are doing it 3 or more times a day it will not be a problem. I think both sides of the argument have valid points. I guess we will find out over time.

Cue Brian H and Volker...

I'm guessing this is where the twin chargers come into their own. If there is not a need for full recharge, but you are stopping for lunch, and in that hour, you can gain 62 miles back vs. 31 without the twin charger, being most chargers available won't be Tesla Superchargers. Is that right?

pilot;
Note that there are NO other cars on the road with more than 100 mi. range, so their needs are very different. I don't know how much future-proofing the SAE standards include. What max battery size do they contemplate.

Also I note that the ½ hr fill rate is actually a percentage of total capacity. So the 60kWh battery would take in about 110 miles worth in that time. If a 40kWh battery could handle Supercharging, it would take in only a 70 miles charge. Not significantly different from the Dual Charge rate.

bsimoes;
Yes, that sounds right. It allow max use of any AC source you encounter, I think.

typo: It allows ...

I have had a Roadster for more than 3 years. The only times that I have charged it outside of my house are on long road trips.

My two homes are 287 miles apart in Boulder and Pagosa Springs, CO. To do this trip in the Roadster, I just plan a lunch, dinner, or white-water rafting trip at one of the RV Parks along the way with a 50 Amp NEMA 14-50 outlet. So far, they just ask how much electricity I will use, I tell them about a $1 per hour and I will stay 2-3 hours, and then they charge me their day use fee of $5 or so. A few times, I have visited friends a 100 miles away or so. There, I have used a heavy duty extension cord, and an adapter for their dryer outler. A 30 Amp dryer outlet, giving me 24 Amps of charging is not great, but overnight, I get a full charge and can drive in fun mode home instead of in eco mode.

I will be taking delivery of my Model S on 8/28 in Denver. My plan is to drive it to Pagosa a few days later. Given the 287 miles and the 265-300 miles range of the Model S, I could probably make it in one charge if I drive in eco mode at 45-50 MPH the whole way. That would be the fastest, but not fun. I will drive in fun mode, stop about 1/2 way, charge up for a few hours on a 50 Amp RV outlet, and have lunch with a friend in the area. More total travel time, but much more enjoyment!

So, Butch, it looks like you'll get yours an hour before we get ours... because of time zones. We could have picked up on Monday but my wife's commitments didn't allow it. But I think I'll still be the first at Qualcomm.

@swmedland

I downloaded Recargo on my iPhone and filtered out all charging stations except Tesla (under Settings). It shows around 25 stations between Orange County and San Francisco, but I'm not sure what a Tesla charging station means in this context. Can anyone enlighten the group?

I believe the Recargo Tesla chargers are Roadster High Power Connectors.

It has a different proprietary connector than the Model S so until Tesla produces an adapter it will only be of use to Roadster owners.

Larry

bsimoes (31 vs 62 mph charge).

If I understand what you're asking:

1. Superchargers bypass either single or twin chargers so no difference there.

2. Any a/c connector that provides more than 40 Amps of charging will benefit from twin chargers.

You can liken the connectors to transportation modes:

Walking--120V 12 amp--5 mph (hairdryer)
Cycling--220V 30 amp--15 mph (stove)
Driving--220V 50 amp--30 mph (RV)
Light rail--220V 80 amp--60 mph (HPC)
Shinkansen--90 kWh DC--300 mph (supercharger)

@Andrew18

When are you getting your Model S? Mine will be here in Nov. We should have a delivery party for Chicago folks! (all Model S admirers would be invited of course)

electric;
Every owner should be obliged to hold a car-warming party within 1 week of taking delivery. >:-O >:) Free buffet and bar.

As has been mentioned, "on road" or away from home charging will probably not be the norm for many including myself. I rarely exceed 50 miles / day driving let alone 200 + coupled with the fact that I'll have a full charge nearly every time I leave home AND the fact that I have two other ICE vehicles should I REALLY need to take a 2000 mile road trip in a limited amount of time.

Not sure if I'll keep the two ICE cars I currently have though as lic. insurance costs etc. for cars that sit most of the time will probably far exceed the cost of just renting a car when and if needed.

Superliner,

Right. Vacation trips are about the only time I'll ever use an away-from-home charger.

I suggest that tesla owners create their own super highway of charging stations. If everyone makes available their chargers, when they are home, the range anxiety would be dramatically reduced. Either for a small fee or free charging at fellow owners, this would allow a network to be formed til more businesses are compelled to install charging stations.

msksus1,

I thought that was what they were doing. The only fly in the ointment is that it will be years before there is reasonable coverage (except for the west coast and north east, neither of which do me a lot of good).

@ggr: Please send me a private e-mail to tesla@irupe.com So, a former Qualcomm employee and a current Qualcomm employee will get their Model S's on the same day. Nice...

@jerry3: Nice comparisons...I agree completely.


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