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Winter Tyres and TPMS

Well, all of you living in areas, where there's a Winter:

The Tesla S can only remember 4 TPMS codes (Tyre Pressure Monitoring System). That is, one set of wheels.
If you need to have winter tyres, and in Norway, Finland and Sweden you do - it is absolutely ILLEGAL to drive with summer tyres on winter roads (they'll take your license away immediately and tell you to hitchhike back home) - you need to do one of four things:

1) Exchange tyres on the rims already on the car twice a year. Expensive and risky for damages on rims, tyres or TPMS:s.
2) Get a second set of four wheels and go to a Tesla workshop twice a year for re-programming (not so practical if you live in Sweden and have to go to Denmark or Norway).
3) Get a Ranger Service (forget that! - several thousand Dollars)
4) Drive the whole half year with a blinking warning triangle (PTMS out of order). No thank you! I already have a blinking 12-V warning sign and it is disturbing. OR...

5) Go ye, TM, and configure a software update that either allows the Tesla S to remember 2 sets of wheels OR
6) Make it possible for the owner to programme the TPMS him/herself. If this takes a Tesla technician less than 5 minutes, it cannot be that hard.

Not totally thought through. There is a world outside California....if you disregard the Nordic countries, try Minnesota or Alaska or Canada.

I realise that I may come through as constantly complaining. It ain't necessarily so. I LOVE the car and am happier than a pig in shit for it. However, not even Tesla have thought of everything, and, I am told, they read this Forum. Of course an aggregate thinking community and test pilots (the first generation of Tesla S owners) can do a lot of good for TM to even further perfect their almost-perfect cars.

Robert

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/21975-Tire-swapping-and-TP...

Tesla does claim that the car can remember 8 TPMS meaning that you can have two sets of rims and it'll be fine tracking them.

For your first point that's the default mode of operation in Estonia and costs ~100 eur per year including two swaps and the place keeping the tires over the season. And that's not the cheapest place, but run by a rally team that do know what good balancing means.

Oh and yes Tesla told me that they are working on a software update that would allow you to reset the TPMS from the dash yourself with no need to visit the SC. They didn't know however when it'll be available.

No, Mario, the Tesla Dealership in Copenhagen has confirmed that - contrary to what they believed and much to their chagrine - it can only remember 4 TPMS.

In Sweden the cost in a reputable garage is almost 200 EUROs (about 260 Dollars) per swap (that's 500+ Dollars a year), and both they and Tesla advice against it for the risks involved. Estonia is, I'm afraid, a much less expensive country to live in than Sweden or Norway.

Robert

Our posts crossed.

Now that is precisely what I was asking for. Spiffing. Hope it comes within my projected life expectancy.

Robert

Ranger service is several thousand dollars? It is far less expensive here and worth it.

I don't think that they could do the tires in your garage since they would need to balance them on the proper equipment. Nonetheless, we decided to go with 19" wheels and tires for the this coming winter. They offer chains in the on-line Tesla store too.

Our car did just fine on compact snow of a couple inches on the road last the winter with the 21" tires when we were caught in an unexpected snow flurry. The regen really helps you keep traction when going down hills because there is no excessive braking. There is an excellent traction control system too.

We understand that this is a learning experience for you and you are more curious than complaining. We had the same questions last year.

I have a question about the cold weather package. It was was not available when we got the car. Does it have a means of heating the headlights so that snow does not accumulate? I was wondering if the heat from the headlights would be adequate to keep the headlights clear.

Cheers!

@Captain_Zap

when I say "garage" that means here a professional workshop, not at my home. I have used the same guys for years and they are very skilled, with top of the line balancing gear, but they charge.

It is not a question if this car can handle snow and ice with summer tyres. It is illegal not to use winter tyres in wintry landscapes, that's all there is to it. Of course the global warming will alleviate this, but that is not what I wish for...

Ranger Service for "out of bounds" areas is prohibitively expensive. I calculated it once. It is a fixed fee for 100 km:s (about 60 miles) and then a surcharge for every km, incl. return. The nearest Tesla Service place is in Oslo, some 529 km away one-way. Just forget it.

Best - Robert

I understand now. In the US they changed the ranger service so that they would go anywhere for a flat rate. It isn't by the mile anymore in the US. I did not realize that they did not make that change in Sweden.

Not sure what your Copenhagen guys are telling you, but this is the e-mail I got from Tesla on 27th of September:

Dear Mr. Kadastik,

My colleague Mr. Henk Berkhof informed me that you have a question regarding the TPMS-sensors in your Model S.

Your car will recognize the TPMS-sensors, even if you have put wintertires on the same wheels.
If you would get an extra set of wheels, then the first time you put them on your car, the TPMS-sensors will have to be programmed in a SC, but from then on they will also be recognized forever.
We are working on a software-package to let customers program their own TPMS through the touchscreen, but the exact date of that release isn’t set yet.
The Model S recognizes 8 TPMS-sensors, so you could always use 2 sets of wheels without having to reprogram TPMS.
I hope this is enough information for you, but if you have any more questions, feel free to ask us.
Kind regards,
Colin Bijnen | Service Advisor – Tilburg Service
Atlasstraat 7-9 | 5047 RG Tilburg, The Netherlands
m: +31 6 296 085 91 | p: +31 13 79 99 301 | e: cbijnen@teslamotors.com

I just ordered an aftermarket winter setup and opted to not spend the extra $500 on an additional set of TPMS sensors. I only have the winters on for a few months and I've gotten by just fine my whole life without having my car tell me that my tires are low.

I absolutely agree, however, now having had the "option" of seeing a blinking warning triangle from the first time I sat my bum onto the seat (12-V Battery needs changing on the very first day) I can only say that I find that blinking message totally distracting and frustrating - not to mention that every passenger/prospective customer are constantly asking why the ....
I want to avoid that during the whole Winter (which is at least 5 months where I live).

Robert

@cfOh
I "know people" who have done the same thing;) I just don't think it's legal according to the TireRack disclaimers.

Ok, seems Robert wrote to Tesla and CC'd the guy I listed and he replied to both of us :)

I am so sorry to inform you, I may have said something that isn’t quite true.
I have had this information that we could program 2 sets of TPMS-sensors on one car, but apparently now it seems to be untrue.
There will probably be a function added in the new firmware, so that customers can program the sensors themselves.
Once again, my apologies, but when the firmware update is released, it will be easier for everyone.

I did not have a 'blinking' warning triangle at all. I ran winter tires on aftermarket wheels without TPMS and had a constant glowing light all winter - not at all annoying or even noticeable while driving. I do get an '!' next to the 'T' in the top center of the console, telling me that there is a warning light on, but that also is not noticable, as it does not blink either. The only risk is that some other warning light might come on and you might not notice it immediately because the '!' message is already turned on.

I got 21s on my Sig and bought a set of 19s with all season tires which I used last winter, thinking I'd sell the 21s. But even with the non-winter we had in Baltimore the all seasons were not good. So I'll be putting snow tires on the 19s and swapping the 21s out in another few weeks. Anyone want to buy some 19" all season tires? Only about 5K miles on them.

@docdac

Nothing under the speedometer? That is where my 12-V Battery warning is "blinking" (twinkling??) in addition to the "!" next to the T.

It disturbs me, for sure and, as you say, covers any other warning sign that might come on and that WOULD be important to attebnd to.

Robert

No flashing lamp, including under the speedometer. I hope that has not changed on recent software updates - I would be surprised if it has changed. I will update everyone when I put snow tire/wheels on in ~Nov/Dec.

Robert, just let some air out of one of your tires to see what the warning looks like.

When I put my track tires on without having Tesla swap over the TPMS, after about 15min it comes up with a message "TPMS need service". There is no blinking, and I didn't find it particularly distracting.

Ranger service doesn't cost several thousand dollars - in the US anyway, it is an extra $500 on the 4-year service plan or $100 per visit. Swapping TPMS takes about 5 minutes, but you have to have a compatible tool (it connects to the white ODB2-like connector under the chin cubby).

@jat
no, of course not in the US, but Sweden does not yet have a Tesla office/SC or dealership, nor are we offered a service plan. it doesn't exist for us, and it is easy to see why. Therefore Ranger Service has to come to somewhere in Sweden from either Copenhagen, Denmark or Oslo, Norway and that IS expensive. I live in Stockholm area, so lucky me, but what about those who live in the middle of nothing? It is obvious that they cannot have service people for the total of 13 cars having been sold to Sweden (thanks, Swedish Government, for making the purchase of an EV so unattractive), so I can understand them.

Robert

After I put my winter setup on, I will likely begin petitioning Tesla to give users the option to permanently "dismiss" the TPMS error so as to not obscure future faults.

Since Tesla didn't sell an offset winter setup for my P+, and their official winter setup was sold out, I was forced to buy aftermarket wheels.

Also, since I won't be requesting my pre-paid Ranger service to reset the TPMS, I'm actually saving them time and expense.

So, it seems like a win-win. I get what I want -- a winter setup without TPMS -- and they get what they want -- a satisfied customer.

@cfOH "TPMS error so as to not obscure future faults"
Good idea, though if there is more than one fault, I've seen the red exclamation point with an integer next to it; touching brings up a list of faults.

@NKYTA - correct, it shows multiple faults in that count, you can bring up the list, plus all the faults are shown anyway.

Firmware 5.6 is rumored to have support for 2 sets of tires, fwiw.
See also http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/firmware-56-being-deployed-chang...

Follow up, and assuming that chrisdl is right:

If the feature about recognizing 2 sets of TPMS is true, then I understand nothing.
Assuming that Tesla didn't invent the change the day before implementing it, they must have known that it was coming imminently. Why then didn't they post it here? Or at least tell their representatives about it?

I have spent innumerable calls to their foreign SC:s talking about this, I have posted here and written to them like a maniac, and generally been a troublesome customer about it.

A small piece of info: "yes, we know, we have solved it, it's coming in the next update sometime very soon" would have saved me time and money, their SC:s considerable time and effectively shut me up (not easy, but this would've worked).

In this day and age of info, INFORM!!!

Robert

Is there anything new on this, with the recent weather Im looking for a solution. I did check to get another set of TPMS and they aprts counter was really pricey, I found a set at ww.tpms.com for about $100 less and they are OE.

With the 5.8 (I believe) software update you can now reprogram the TPMS yourself. I'm sure an owner will also chime in with specifics.

Cheers!

Yes, just swap the tires, select "Reset TPMS", and drive for a bit and it will learn the new sensors. I got mine from tirerack.com (for my dedicated track tires) and they work perfectly fine.

I definitely recommend you put the TPMS sensors in your winter wheels. Jat is right, in 5.8 it is very easy to reset them each time you swap wheels. If you don't put them in, the car will alert you each time you drive that there is a problem.

Just be sure the aftermarket TPMS you order is running the proper frequency ! Tesla Model S uses a TPMS frequency of 433MHz.


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