40's Need a Fix

Lots of folks who've waited faithfully for a long time, and committed to an MVPA for a 40kWh car, and now are justifiably hurt to hear production is delayed again, while noob 85's get their cars quickly.

This gripe is legitimate - TM has made business decisions that have the effect of stringing along 40KW reservation holders. (Even if that wasn't the intent).

I think TM needs to mend fences with them. Here is my suggestion:

If you have a 40KW reservation and signed an MVPA, TM will refund your money on request, but grandfather in your option to purchase at the original price when the 40 starts production.

This would be a good faith gesture to credit supporters who've loaned them money. I think it would fix the problem and reaffirm folks' faith in the company's decency.

What do all of you think?

(Please note your res type in your post).

I got the email for the rear seats, first email in a long time, hopefully soon will be for the real car.

I could imagine that there are technical issues with the 40 even if they are not explicitly announcing it. In any case, the reality is that there is a delay, albeit a shorter one, and many long time reservation holders are unhappy. If profitability is low and/or cost to retool is too high for the 40, they really should phase it out (or not even phase it in) - and let folks know in advance that is their intent with some sort of upgrade possibility.

For my part, I'd move forward with opportunity to get the 60 for a $7K increase. I never understood why the cost per kWh didn't track for the 60 to 85 in the same way it does for the 40 to 60. Even having a 60 with a SW limitation would be desirable - though that is clearly not likely to happen.

In the end TM has got to be concerned about making their customers happy or they won't succeed. Given what has happened to me to this point I'd certainly have to caution against 'buying' a car within the current TM paradigm. Even being someone who champions the electric car, I had major difficulty signing the MVPA. For me the 40 is about buying the right size. However, if I had received the MVPA, regardless of size, after reading the comments in this thread, I don't know if I would have signed. In the end TM can't afford such a loss of trust. The loss in profitability building the 40's now is small relative to the reputation of fairness.

I'm really hoping that TM can step up to fairness of number sequencing and get beyond the immediate shareholder concerns.

The TM production line is flexible, but not that flexible. Batching and supply lines still rule.

I really don't wish to keep this thread going, but I will say that the relief I felt from George's "it's really only a 4 week delay" email has worn off. I'm back to be pissed that the 40's are being dealt a disproportionately large delay without a good explanation. It would help to see the Tesla crew put in the hours they did in December to help get us back on track. Granted, the situation is different now than then, but it shows it is within their power to turn this around quickly. I'm tired of being pissed off. It's draining.

ChasF - at this point, the only cure for what you're feeling is delivery. Let's hope that is forthcoming.

I sure would like an email, when they start to produce the 40, or an email stating that the EPA rating is in for the 40.

I think a lost of us 40's have kind took a break from the forms, because we were so looking at the start of March for some news for the 40.

I got the email for the rear seats, the first email from Tesla in a long time, just to find out it is something about the rear seat, which I did not order anyway! (kind of a different let down, because I was expecting something about the 40)

I got a phone call from a Tesla rep today, and he told me that 40's are in production now (limited, small numbers), and they should start delivering in April. I'm guessing that they will make air suspension first. He wouldn't give me any hard dates, but a guesstimate of May would be the earliest for my 40kWH with standard suspension (res #10,XXX)

Interesting since yesterday I was just told mid summer at best. I have a 2xxx number.

I called a couple weeks ago and was told likely Mid May to End of June for reservation 83xx


I just called today, and asked about the EPA rating on the 40 and they said that it have not be done yet. Also checked on my delivery date and was told May/June. P8467. So no fix yet.

They really should let us 40s upgrade to 60s at a discounted rate perhaps at their cost delta. It is getting a bit rediclous that they will be delivering cars to Europe before reservation holders of 2-3 years.

From December to February to March to June. Time to make amends with the people that helped keep the company a float.

I agree with a lot of what's written above. TM should simply "upgrade" 40's to 60's at zero cost, and queue people who have a 40 MVPA into line per reservation number. Depending on how many 40's are reserved, it may even save TM money when compared to the costs for tooling, testing, etc. required to bring 40's into production. Frankly, seeing others jump ahead of us is a constant irritation.

Some need a bit of a reality check, before they begin spending TM's money and fiddling the lineup of offerings. Some very silly suggestions, above.

Brian H

Must you comment on every single post made on the forms? You really need not feel obligee to do so.

ok i will do for brian~ as an owner of a 60 with sc why shouldbres holders of 40s get for free what i paid $12000 for????

~ sent from my car. well worth the 18 months i waited for it.

BS. Check again. My posts are far more sparse than that. MYOB.

brian h +1

I bit the bullet and gave in to upgrading to an 85 I don't really need. The wait was just killing me.

Having said that, I too was drawn to a Model S when it appeared that it would have a 300 Mile range, a 5.6 0 to 60 acceleration and a cost of $49,000 and eventually decided that, even though it was not the same care I had envisioned, I would be better off keeping some money.

The wait and the uncertainty of the delivery times, made me change my mind once again.

I truly hope that Tesla delivers the 40s as promised (or at least as soon as possible) and keeps its word.

Good luck to you all.

Brian H +2

Spoken as someone who cannot (yet) afford or obtain a Tesla at all.

As a reservation holder for over 3 years (40 months to be exact), I had no idea when making my 40KwH reservation that people making reservations 3 years later would be jumping the line and getting their car months before my car gets delivered. I'm sure long-time European reservation holders are frustrated, too. We took a risk on Tesla, helped finance the company all these years, and now we are being treated poorly. I understand why Tesla is making the decision to delay production of the 40's but they are choosing profit over goodwill...and fairness.

I probably wasn't clear enough in my earlier post regarding a free upgrade from 40 to 60, and adjusting the queue so early reservation and/or MVPA holders receive better line placement. It sounds like there are very few 40 reservations, and the 40 may not sell well or be profitable. As both an investor and 40 MVPA signer, it might be cost effective to eliminate the 40 model and all the expense that comes with it. I still prefer a 40 for a variety of reasons, but would accept a free upgrade to 60 if it means earlier delivery and more TM profit. As an investor, I would prefer TM focused on models that are in demand and make money. As I see it, upgrading 40's to 60's free of charge would make sense in every way if TM is not selling many 40's. What's unclear today is how many 40 reservations exist, and how much financial sense this suggestion makes in light of so many unknown numbers. What IS clear is that a growing number of customers are becoming unhappy. I don't think this is good for my investment or the people holding 40 reservations.

I had a great conversation with Scar at the Tesla Customer Call Center yesterday. She indicated that the 40 kwh’s will be in production and I could expect a delivery button toward the end of April and the car by mid May.
Aug 3, 2012 Reserved #109XX, RN3113XX
Dec 12, 2012 Invited to configure
Dec 13, 2012 Finalized order(S40,Gray,Std Air...)
Great arguments on both sides and I thoroughly enjoy the views. Since I am in the financial/investment world, my heart tells me that they are doing wrong for having two lines but my logic tells me that they are doing the right thing financially and for the long term viability for TM.
Good luck to everyone.

Better communication with the long time 40 reservation holders could have avoided this problem. An upgrade deal for them would likely help the festering situation, certainly not free but maybe at cost? Even a token discount would likely be appreciated by many. I do not not know the numbers but I doubt that dropping the 40 is in the cards. I would guess that battery costs are in flux and 40s will be profitable, if not at the moment than in months to come.

Truly sad to see the cancellations but I do empathize with long time reservation holders. Hopefully the 40 reservation holders will feel a bit better knowing they will be getting a car with fewer bugs (minor as they are). I personally would be patient knowing the time gets me better quality and more time to solidify financial arrangements, but personally would prefer to upgrade to 60 to get supercharging if I was a 40 reservation holder.

Thanks to the patient long time 40 reservation holders... from a TM fan. Best wishes to you all.

@FLsportscarenth.. Well said about getting a car with fewer bugs. That is how I feel as well.

I am a 40kWH reservation holder and waiting patiently. I was hoping to get my car by the start of summer but seems unlikely at this point. I do think it is unfair that people who reserved after me are already getting their car, but at the same time it is also unreasonable to expect Tesla to offer free upgrade to 60kWH. A discount on upgrade to 60kWH is more reasonable but only Tesla knows if that makes financial sense.

Better communication is a weak point for TM unfortunately. However... I think the 'profit' rhetoric is misplaced. TM is a PUBLIC company and owes its owners a return. It's also a 'mission driven' company (electric cars for a better world) and if they don't generate cash, and profit, they won't survive and certainly then won't develop Model X or Gen III. I bought the car partly to support that mission... I understand the 'queue jumping' point but each new variant (signature, then P85, then P60, then P40) costs development money to bring to production- homolation, EPA tests, software, on and on- and this HAS to be supported, long term, by cash flow generated by sales of the vehicles.

So... if the first 6000 cars generated less free cash than expected- which is implied by the 10K- it is natural and inevitable (and prudent) to slow product development. Hence the delay for Model X, and probably the 40 kWh car.

Another point is that TM says they are trying to reduce overtime, rework, etc- drive the car's cost down. Increased production system variability is going to make that harder. If they are doing their job right, the trigger point to launch 40s into production should be tied to when the system can handle the extra variability without stress.

I know this is unsatisfying. It's hard when people feel overpromised and underdelivered.

Homologation, I meant.

Lots of great stuff happening this spring according to George B's latest blog post. I was shocked, shocked, I tell ya, that there was no mention of 40kwh cars. But, after all, there is so much going on it is hard to keep track, as he says.

On the positive side, they are now prepared to take more of my money to service a car I don't have yet.

Sent an email a couple of days ago to the "ownership experience advocate" I've been occasionally communicating with for quite a while now and who has been very helpful and responsive in the past. Expressed my displeasure as to the ongoing absence of official communication regarding production plans.

Seeing as almost a month has passed since George's post on the TMC forums (peculiar way of communicating with customers, if you ask me), I thought that Tesla now should have a better idea of when these cars will actually be, you know, produced.

His response -

"Hi Mark,

Thank you for the email.

My understanding is that Tesla is not yet producing the 40 kWh batteries for customer cars. Development is still ongoing, although I do not have any further specifics at this time. I certainly understand your frustration and will relay this to our teams.

We will update you once information becomes available, sorry that I do not have a new update at this time."

So basically, he is as clueless as the rest of us.

Call me crazy, but I expect to be treated with, at the very least, common courtesy by companies I do business with. If there is no specific news by next week, and I don't expect there to be any, my wife and I will probably cancel our mvpa that promised December/January delivery and get a refund. One thing that is holding us up is the expenses we have already incurred upgrading our electrical infrastructure.

Best bet. Don't do business with a business that's doesn't respect your continued support for 3-1/2 years with a no interest reservation. Don't do business with a company that isn't trust worthy proven by continued broken promises. Promises by such a company after you receive the car could only be worse. Don't do business with a company that only sees green in the form of cash. Look at Tesla Motors promise of an early government loan repayment, partially with your reservation money, instead of using that money to deliver cars they owe customers. The loan terms could still be met. Lets cut to the chase, reconsider your reservation based on all the negative facts Tesla Motors has created in regards to the 40kWh reservation holders. My decision was easy after I realized I was being taken advantage of by Tesla Motors. Justice for Tesla Motors has been served in its best form. My cancellation for a Tesla 40kWh Model S has been completed.

David Slagle

Brian H

You have made more than 670 posts, according to Most are grammar corrections, particularly of those commenters for whom English may not be the first language. While many of your comments are helpful and forward the discussion, some are simply cruel and churlish. I think that calling very frustrated reservation holders "silly" falls into the latter category.

I must admit, I got a little excited this morning when I saw a red button appear on My Garage. Then, I just laughed when I realized it was a "Services Sign Up" button for my 40 kWh car that doesn't yet exist.

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