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Radiation from Battery/Electric Motor

Was thinking about whether there is ELF or ionizing radiation emitted from the huge battery pack and electric motor underneath the vehicle. Obviously ionizing radiation would be a major concern if that was the case, but even ELF radiation over long periods could be of concern.

If radiation is emitted, does the 85kwh emit more than a 60 let's say. Better yet, does an ICE vehicle produce less than an EV given the lack of battery?

Wondering if anybody has looked at what of anything the MS emits in terms of radiation and potential effects on long term health?

No study anywhere at any time has shown a link between ELF or non-ionizing radiationmof the type produced by electrical systems and netive health effects. Furthermore, electrical systems such as batteries, motors, and charging systems do not produce ionizing radiation. Worry more about the sun and the things you put in your body.

Wow typos, sorry.

Right on Chris@logic. Ionizing radiation is the result of decay chain daughter products coming from radioactive material. The battery pack is no more radioactive than a loaf of bread. Okay maybe 10 loaves of bread.

Your house has electricity right? Same 'radiation.' Ie, electric fields. Don't give it another thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_low_frequency

"ELF radio waves are generated by lightning and natural disturbances in Earth's magnetic field,....."

also,
"Because of the difficulty of building transmitters that can generate such long waves...", and these freaks think the Tesla puts out so much it's harmful to humans.

..."US and Russian military have used ELF transmission facilities to communicate with their submerged submarines....", I hope the military buys the Tesla ELF generator. That will really make the stock go up.

What a DC battery has to do with it I have no idea... maybe just that it can be used to run equipment that generates an ELF.

Question is, does a tesla produce greater ELF than an ICE?

Neither produces any appreciable ELF. ELF radiation has huge wavelengths and requires
antennae on the order of miles long to produce. Last time I checked, no normal car dimension
or part exceeds a few meters in length.

You gotta be kidding with this post.

Let's not get too angry over this post, it is a ligitimate concern. We should be educating people so they understand. The short answere is the risk is low if not zero. My dad worked customer service for the local power company for 35 years and had to address these types of questions all the time. In fact, I have high tension power lines behind my house and had to convince my wife there was no danger when we moved in. (I think it is a great feature as I have a huge green space and my closest neighbor is about 200 meters away). Anyway, the truth of the matter is we are constantly surrounded by electromagnetic fields. Any electicity moving through a conductor created them. However, the strength of these fields is quite low. Also, as you move away from the source, the strength of the field decreases following the inverse square law. And as posted above, there is no ionizing radiation associated with electromagnetic fields.

Yes, I agree. It's a very reasonable question. Not too long ago people had tremendous concerns about putting a laptop on your lap and it's link to sterility particular in males. Not an unreasonable question at all consider sitting on top of over 7000 batteries!

You two do realize ELF is Extremely Low Frequency waves and has nothing to do with electro-anything except humans use electricity is used to make them.

Ionizing radiation is from decaying isotopes which don't come from lithium batteries. People need to stop and just do a simple Google search on this stuff before they freak out over it. On the bright side the government would require the car to have a radiation symbol on it if it was radioactive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionizing_radiation

I think everyone here is mistaking ELF for EMF, ElectroMagnetic Field. There are already several topics on EMF.

I watched ELF over the holiday - one of the best Xmas movies ever if you ask me. Will Ferrell plays it just right...

The laptop thingnwas due to heat, not EM radiation. This thread is silly. You should all be more worried about driving 5000 pounds of metal around at high speed. Pay attention to real threats.

Yes, I started one of those threads several months ago to discuss the potential health effects of being in close proximity to an EMF source, and was deemed a wingnut (I'm not). I discussed EMF exposure levels with a Tesla engineer several years ago when they brought the car to Boston. They recognized the potential for public concern at that time and I was told it was being addressed. No details were given and no I didn't feel like I was being patronized since distance from source and shielding was discussed. As I mentioned in prior posts, there is no scientific debate. EMF can and does perturb the cellular microenvironment, at the very least displacing proteins within cells and causing ion channel disruption. The question is not whether EMF can alter cellular function, it absolutely can, but whether proximity to EMF of sufficient strength leads to a pathologic series of events within the cell. This issue remains unresolved but a number of intriguing peer-reviewed studies are in process. It is true that EMF is ubiquitous but exposures vary tremendously. I own and drive a MS and have no reason to suspect that my health is in any kind of jeopardy, nor do I worry about it. It is premature however to label those who are curious about the relationship of EMF to health as crackpots. Keep an open mind, I strongly suspect you'll be hearing more about this topic in the future.

Thanks Robert and others for taking this post seriously and providing your views as opposed to others who simply like to be dismissive and take away from the conversation.

I am a reservation holder and very eager to receive my car, my wife and brother asked me this question and I did not have an answer. I thought it was an interesting one so posted it to the forum.

What I do gather is that EMF is in play, however, long term impacts are under review and nothing is definitive at this point. While I understand that EMF is all around us everyday, it strikes me that anything one can do to limit exposure is not a bad thing, hence the question as to how much incremental the MS puts out.

Thanks folks

Just saying you aren't a wingnut doesn't make it so. 99% of certifiable wingnuts think they are perfectly normal. If you are truly worried about EMF or other forms of electrical emissions, perhaps life on a small island would suit better. Just stay out of the sun and don't eat the tuna. None of us will be on earth longer than a blink of an eye, so all this navel gazing concern is a waste of valuable time.

Our local utility recently put in 'smart-meters', which from what I am told send out a wireless EMF signal. There has been a HUGE amout of fear with regard to both this, and cell-towers, so much infact, I understand there are many investigations and pending lawsuits in progress realted to EMF's. I also know that many highly funded research has been done in Europe with regard to the effects cell phone radiation has on our bodies, and it appears the jury is still out on that one as well. Either way, I can't say I know enough about the science of it, to make any openon on the matter.

On the flip side, I have done a bit of research into the so-call 'chemtrails', and have found just as much extreme controversy on the subject. So far I have come to the conclusion that other than what crop-dusters do over farm fields, there is no such thing as''chemtrails', and if these jet-engine vapor-trails (aka contrails) are actually some nefarious government coverup, it's been happening since the early 1900's.

Either way, I'll take my chances with my Tesla's EMF's, over the far more dangerous carbon-monoxide emissions, which have been clinically proven to cause cancer, and respiratory diseases.

Would after market lead seat covers help?

Wut?

Chemtrails? I'm out. Leaving this one to the Art Bell types.

Not only is EMF harmless, so is most ionizing radiation. Keeps the repair system ticking over and healthy. A NJ study of nurses exposed to radon had to be buried, because it turned out that the more exposure they got, the lower their cancer rates were. Not at all the desired conclusion!

It does appear to me that the more dangerous view is from those that think there are major health problems from EMF from an EV such as the Tesla.
It does not seem plausible to me that significant ELF can be generated by the Tesla. See other postings in this thread for explanation.
Please refer to http://www.who.int/peh-emf/about/WhatisEMF/en/index1.html To my mind this is a rational look at the effects of EMF on the human body. The detrimental effects of EMF according to them are minimal at worst to non existent at best.
EMF is related to voltage. Higher the voltage the higher the EMF.
A ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) uses spark plugs which operate at 12,000 to 60,000 volts. I believe that most cars operate nearer the upper end of this range.
Tesla operates on about 400 volts. However, the individual batteries are only 3.1 volts! I believe that the full 400 volts is not realized until near the output point of the battery?
Both are close to the passenger. Tesla is under the floor somewhere, and the ICE by your feet in the foot well.
If I thought EMF were a problem, I would stay away from the ICE car and go to the Tesla because of what seems to me to be LOWER EMF's from the Tesla.
There are much more deadly chemical things to worry about when you drive a ICE vehicle. Has everyone forgotten the bad stuff that comes out of the exhaust pipe?

E60 M5 Owner when you started this topic it was about ELF and ionizing radiation not EMF. I guess you have no argument there so it's time to switch to EMF.

Go back and read these posts. There are many more on the subject in this forum.

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/emf-radiation

http://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/forum/forums/electromagnetic-field-shie...

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/emf-dangers

Considering that the electricians of the world have all been working around the stuff a lot more than just people living around it and NONE of them have won a workers comp lawsuit I think the jury is in on the subject.

I believe one of those past topics also discussed EMF concerned people not living on Earth because it has it's own EMF all the time. It pretty much puts to shame most of what humans create considering it reaches into space.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_magnetic_field

+1 lph, the EMF from any ICE is far higher then anything that the Model S is capable of producing. ELF and ionizing radiation are not even something to be concerned with in a vehicle unless we were using Thorium or Uranium instead of batteries.

@tikiman-

Carbon monoxide has not been clinically proven to cause cancer, or for matter, been shown to promote cancer in any peer-reviewed paper I'm aware of. Carbon monoxide has actually been used as a therapeutic to reduce the damage of acute lung injury and exerts a protective effect on the alveolus. We may all be treating ourselves with limited doses of carbon monoxide one day if the pulmonary protective effects are confirmed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22201607

@Brian H-

Smoking was considered harmless too. Wait for the data.

Additional studies this year have confirmed original findings that ionizing radiation from the increased use of CT scans and mammography results in higher rates of secondary malignancies. Exposure to most ionizing radiation is most definitely not harmless. Are you sure the study you cite wasn't buried because of its flawed design? An overwhelming and growing body of literature refutes your contention.

http://blogs.webmd.com/cancer/2012/06/are-ct-scans-raising-our-cancer-ri...

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=47820

Correction: "Exposure to most ionizing radiation above background..."

Robert;
The LND assumption (Linear Nontoxic Dose) and "standard" uses high dose responses and linear extrapolation to low doses. Invalid. The dose determines the response non-linearly. That is, there is a U-shaped function. Beneficial to a an optimum point, over which it starts to be less so, then becomes harmful. Lots of chemicals also show this pattern.

This is a legitimate concern from someone looking for actual data and information, not snarky replies from Armchair Quarterbacks armed with an internet connection and a search engine. Babies and young children are going to sit less than a foot away from a powerful electric motor for hours a day. That's not something that happens on a mass scale now, and it's fair for anyone to be be concerned about the possible long-term effects.

E60 M5 Owner didn't claim to be an expert, and may have used the wrong terminology or whatever, but these forums are about disseminating useful information. Useful information is quantitative data with comparisons to other household devices such at televisions, etc., not remarks like "Go live on a small island."

Thanks Getting Amped

For anyone worried about this I suggest wearing a tin foil helmet 24/7... not only will you be protected from the radiation but other benefits include:

- strangers will likely not ask you about your new Tesla
- you will look very futuristic and therefore aliens will know that you are 'the man in charge'

... sorry couldn't write anymore, laughing too hard...

Funny, I was going to ask about headroom in a Model S when wearing a tinfoil hat in the thread debating climate change, but though it might not be productive.


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