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SCE Southern California

Hello,

I have a question about SCE rates. Does anyone in SoCal have a peak/off peak plan, or an EV plan? I am considering it for when I get my S 60, but I always go to the tier 3 level, which is above 0.31 in the summer due to A/C, etc. Is it worth switching?

Merci!

Don't know about SCE rates, but here in San Diego, with SDG&E, I am saving literally 38% off my electric bill when I switched to their whole house TOU-2 time of day rate, which is only available to EV owners.

I am in the process of putting the infrastructure in to allow me to go on the SCE EV rate plan. Unfortunately this requires the installation of a 2nd meter, but provides the most rate certainty for EV charging. Doubles the upfront cost of the charging infrastructure ($900 total). Under the EV rate plan the off peak (9pm to noon)rate is only $0.11/kWh. With the recent MS software update it is easy to use scheduled charging to assure this rate.

The way I was able to shave off a large chunk of my total electricity bill was to use the time of use rate that DIDN'T require a second meter - that way my whole house goes under the time of use rate, which, if you use a lot of electricity, is a much cheaper rate structure.

As long as no one is home during the day drawing power, the TOU-D plan can work. The peak rates (10am to 6pm) under this plan are much higher than the standard residential rate structure, so if you draw power under this plan the total bill can increase substantioally (especially in the summer - $0.47/kWh). For me, my wife and kids are home during peak hours, so I chose the best option for me. There is no one size fits all in this decision, just understand how you use power and select the approach that fits best for you.

@ asim77

Currently, I am using TOU-EV-1 and i have a second meter.

Schedule TOU-EV-1
On-Peak: 12:00 noon to 9:00 p.m. all year, every day
Off-Peak: All other hours - all year, everyday

Electric Vehicle Plan (TOU-EV-1)
Summer Winter
On-Peak
Noon – 9 PM every day 33 ¢ / kWh 23 ¢ / kWh
Off-Peak
9 PM – Noon every day 11 ¢ / kWh 11 ¢ / kWh

The cost of the 2nd meter is whats going to add some heavy cost up front. Over the long run, it will pay it self back.

Another option is if they have a charging station at your work or if they let you plug in.

I am also on TOU-EV-1 and it saves some money (especially now that scheduled start time for charging is in the software), even above the solar TOU rate plan I was on. I have posted an electricity cost analysis (in an Excel spreadsheet) at http://EVTripPlanner.com/calcs.php or you can see a snapshot of expected costs at http://evtripplanner.com/ElectricityCost.pdf

I just updated my Electricity Cost calculations to account for efficiencies and "vampire load" (draw while parked), and once you look at all that the overall efficiency (driving energy / wall energy) is like 70% (even if the average charger efficiency is 84%). That means that if your dashboard is telling you that you are using 345 Wh/mile, the real from-the-wall usage is more like 490 Wh/mile. If vampire load was reduced to about 10% of what it is now, these numbers would be more like 82% and 420 Wh/mi. Anyway, you can play with the spreadsheet by downloading from http://evtripplanner.com/TeslaOperations.xlsx

See more on actual efficiency in this thread - http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/charging-efficiency-0#comment-14...

Our solution with SCE is whole-house TOU plus solar. Generally nobody is home in afternoon, hence we sell high. If not, solar offsets the high price.
EV charging is done at night so we buy low.
I highly recommend you look into this option.

I have SCE and I have a TOU-D-TEV. Which basically means, I have one meter, have an EV, and I am on Time-of_use.

If you are not at home during the day, TOU may work better for you (see Earl and Nagin above) whether you have solar or not. However, AC usage at home may make this different. I live closer to the beach, so I don't have an AC.

The rate mentioned above only has two teirs. Once you consome your Tier 1 "allotment", you are on Tier 2, regardles of the time of day you are consuming electricity. An EV, especially a Tesla, will be the overwhelming majority of your usage.

For instance on a typical weekday, I use 27 KWH and 17 KWH are charging my Nissan Leaf in the middle of the night. 63% of my usage is from EV charging, and this is with a 24KWH batter. No imagine charging with a battery capacity of 60 or 80 KWH.

So at TOU type situation will probably benefit you, because the car will be significantly more than the rest of your house. I know my numbers may vary from yours, because I don't have an AC.

Something to remember is that while electricity is cheaper than gasoline, the EV will make using your micorwave, coffee pot and any else electric power more expensive.

There is way more to discuss on this, but I have tried to keep points fairly simple. Good Luck

I apologize for the all the typos above...

Most power utilities have smart meters and you can view and even download your usage data. Online, SCE has views to see your usage by the month, daily, or even hourly. This will help you determine if TOU is of benefit for you.

Using normal domestic residential rates will kill you, because in no time at all (MS charging), you will be in the highest of 5 tiers, making your all power consumption very expensive. Where at least in a TOU plan, you can take advantage of cheap electricity at night.

I am in negotiations for a solar system for exactly the same reasons @Earl and Nagin above have mentioned. Get credits for high rate production and buy at cheap rates overnight.

I agree with all posts. Unfortunately we work out of the house and are home throughout the day. Hence, time of use plan is not a good option for us. My electric bill jumped $100 because we are at a high tier. We are opting to put in a second meter but have to tell you, SCE planning dept. appt. is hard to get scheduled! Our electrician has been trying for several weeks and still has not gotten a return phone call. I was told you have to keep at it, be patient, and be persistent. Hopefully will get this done soon. Hope you can make a decision that works well for you (feel your pain).

Can you explain how you sell high and buy low? I am in the process of getting solar city to install panels at my home. I've already transitioned to the time of use electric plan with SCE. However, I signed a lease plan with solar city that locks in the rate I buy energy from solar city (which is about 17 cents per kwh). SCE just recently lowered the time of use rates to only 10 cents per kwh when using from 12 midnight to 6 am (super off peak) but increased the price of the off peak and on peak hours so it would be great if I were able to get charged for only my nightly use and sell back the energy I make during the day from the panels.

@qphan79,
I don't know for sure how it works with Solar City. We own our own panels so we automatically buy or sell electricity at the rate for the time. Therefore, during the peak time, when the sun is shining but the electricity prices are high, we sell to the grid at high prices.
We then set our EVs to charge during the super off-peak times.
It happens automatically with solar net metering and TOU pricing plan.

I switched to the TOU-D-TEV plan and I have saved about $200 per month on my electric bill. (I don't have A/C in the house so it really helps.) As a result, the amount of my electric bill has not increased since I've owned the Model S.

Earl and nagin, so do you get a fairly large credit from SCE? I would assume so if you are getting credit of up to .47 per kwh during the summer but are using mostly energy at night when the rate is only .09 per kwh. If so, that's awesome!!

@qphan,
Yes, we get a good credit during the summer but actually, the biggest benefit is that you don't have to buy a large enough solar array to offset all of your EV usage. That is actually where the biggest savings come in.
Last year was actually the first year we were on the TOU plan and we actually generated more electricity than we used so we ended up only getting paid the average wholesale rate of about $60 for the year. It wasn't a typical year since we were not home for a lot of the year. We could have gotten by with a much smaller (cheaper) PV array and still come out ahead. This means we could have used approximately $300 more electricity (about 8,000 miles at offpeak rates or 3,000 miles at peak rates) and gotten $0 back. We're only on regular TOU, not TOU-EV so our off-peak rates are about $0.11/kWhr and our peak are about $0.35 (I don't recall exact amount and I don't have numbers with me now). It will be interesting to see how we do this year.

So if I'm on pace to use about 20,000 kwh annually and my solar panel lease generates about 10,000 kwh annually...this could potentially be a very substantial savings of money paid for electricity due to net metering! 75% of my energy use occurs during super off-peak hours currently and only about 4% is during on peak. I've doubled my energy use since I got my tesla. It seems that once my solar panels are installed,
I might be paying less than before with over twice as much usage! This seems to be too good to be true though so I won't believe it until I see it.

@qphan,
Yes, too good to be true. The power company is taking something of a loss on this since they are being forced to buy at retail prices. I can't see this lasting forever but, for now, it is very good.

I agree, the SCE TOU rate is best if you can charge overnight. If not, get the 2nd meter.

Long run, if possible for your home, call Solar City. Not getting solar is throwing money away. Solar systems are much less expensive than they used to be and will get you down in the lower tiers. I maxed out my system to produce 100% of my annual consumption - just on principle.

We are having SolarCity do a big solar system (large house, AC in summer, 1st Model S coming soon and likely will order a 2nd thereafter). SolarCity really understands the ins and outs of the rate plans, the Model S usage and electrical needs, and the way to optimize the system. FWIW, their goal is to generate about 70% of your electrical usage but about 90% of your electrical cost. You generate expensive kW during the peak hours (TOU metering essential) and buy back cheap power at night (to charge your Model S). We are actually going to go with their Power Purchase Agreement. We agree to buy our power from them at 50% of what we pay now, they handle the rest. Worth a look.

Yeah I'm scheduled to get our rate on the TOU-D-EV plan. I'm looking to rule on this. It gives me the control to use power during cheaper rates and capitalize on it. Having a standard tiered system is worthless with the S. If you look close tier 1 is good and cheap and 300kW , but tier 2 is only another 90kW! One big charge, or two normal charges and you're into tier 3. Already 31¢/kW!
With the on/off peak times, you can live off the cheap 11¢ hours. But you only qualify if you have an EV. They wouldn't want everybody on this plan... with a little self control you can clean em out!
I'm looking forward to this.

I can't speak for the leasing plans, but for the arrangement of high nighttime (super offpeak as SCE calls it), the payback one a purchase plan is about 6 years give or take. In our case it will be a no brainier to purchase because after 6 years, it will be free money to charge the Tesla.

We installed a second meter to take advantage of the TOU-EV-1 electric vehicle plan ($0.11/kwh for 9pm to noon the next day). I work from home, so the Home & Electric Vehicle plan (TOU-D-TEV) wouldn't work out well, especially in the summer.

Using SCE's calculator ( https://www.sce.com/nrc/pev/index.html ) I estimated that the shared-meter plans would cost us about the same, but having the second meter would save us about $50/month. It cost an extra $1,000 to put the second panel & meter in (it was a project: spacing was tight, and we had to put in a new weatherhead), so I estimate that it'll pay for itself in about two years. In the meantime, it feels really good to be able to say that we drove all month for $35 in electricity.

Also to keep in mind: If you're putting in another panel & meter, you'll need a permit & inspection. In Santa Monica, the permit would have been about $225, but there was a state (I think) program that covered all but $1 of that fee. :)

awilder: Can you or anyone who knows provide further information on the state program that covered the second panel and meter. I have to do the same thing here in my home in Laguna Beach.


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