Forums

JOIGNEZ-VOUS À LA COMMUNAUTÉ
INSCRIVEZ-VOUSIdentifiant

WARNING!!! EXTREME WEAR ON REAR TIRES!

I subscribe to the FB Tesla MS owners site and one post referred to extreme wear on the inside of his rear tires after only 8100 miles, the wear was so severe the cord was exposed. Being curious, I checked my rear tires and after ONLY 1600 miles I had the same extreme wear! I can see and feel the cord exposed. Everyone should check their rear tires IMMEDIATELY!

Welcome! It's a rare look under the car! It had me at virtual pivot points... B-)

P85 with 21" wheels. Picked up on Dec.30 and now with 6,000 miles. After seeing this thread I checked, and the inside of both rear tires completely bald!

Going to need to get this checked out....

@ CnJsSigP

The conclusion from that very elaborate article is worth noting:

"From what we've just seen it seems that Tesla has some very clever engineers on the payroll. The 2012 Tesla Model S appears to be much more than a sophisticated battery and electric motor encased in a beautiful wrapper. Dig down farther and the bones look very sound indeed, suggesting that Tesla has serious all-around potential to be around for the long haul."

Just got back from the machine shop..... Still no easy fix for camber as two of what I thought were my best ideas got shot down by the machinists. The first thing you learn as an engineering in training is that, no matter how neat an idea is, it is useless if it can not be made.

I had my car at the Service Center yesterday and told them about what I read here on the tire wear thread. I had them check out my 21's and they said that they looked fine.

They hadn't seen or heard of any problems previously.

I have 4k miles on my non-perf 21" tires. I check tire pressure every two weeks (holding steady) and the inside/outside tread wear appears to be uniform with lots of tread depth remaining.

Just by eye tho. Anyone have the new tire tread depth they can post so I can actually measure my wear? This thread has me a little worried but so far it appears excessive wear may be primarily due to out of tolerance suspension/camber settings.

It is very odd that some people have fried their tires in 6K miles while others are not having any issues. It will be interesting to get this sorted and find out why owner's experiences are so different. It would be easy to think it was the "lead foot" problem but I suspect it is more than that. I remember what Acura went through on the NSX when it first came out.

My 19s look fine after 4600 miles (delivered 12/19/13)

Make sure your traction control is turned on (I thought the MS video on the website mentioned something about excessive tire wear if the TC is turned off..???).

I understand the air suspension lowers the car at higher speeds.
Will this have an effect on camber ?

The next step with this issue should be to put together a poll, so we can ascertain more specifics on the issue...

1) Type of wheels? (19" or 21").
2) Type of tire? (summer performance or all-season)
3) Milage on your MS.
4) Area of the nation you drive your MS?
5) Type of primary you driving you do? (city, highway)
6) Do you ever turn off traction-control?
7) Are you an aggressive or conservative driver?
8) What type of roads / highways you typically drive? (straight, winding, flat, hilly, mountain)
9) What is the current condition of your tires?

Oh, and one more...

11) What type of suspension do you have? (air or standard)

Just to add my experience at 2600 mi with 21 in wheels. I checked and noticed moderate feathering on the inside of the right rear. Further checking revealed that camber was out of spec at -2.2.

In addition, I noted that two tires were badly out of round. I should have suspected that because each ha ten balance weights.

I am currently getting ready to try to resolve the situation with Tesla.

Still the best car I have owned and I started with a '63 Healey 3000.

Hans,

I did a quick line drawing to answer that question.
http://www.lolachampcar.com/images/Tesla/Rear%20Geometry%20Model.pdf

I came up with .4 degrees of gain for a 2" drop (standard to low).

Tikiman
I've been doing this on an informal basis and it seems 21s are at more risk. I have mostly been going by personal experience knowing how I drive (not super easy on the throttle but most certainly not launches from every light) and knowing I have torn up tires on two other cars before fixing the problem.

I just picked up the adjustable link insert for the upper camber arm today and should have exact link dimensions later this week. The real question for me is do I "one off" some for me, come up with a limited run CnC'd part or inquire about an extrusion like Tesla did.

Would somebody please comment on tire wear one should expect when a car doesn't have a differential in the drive axle. Don't the rear tires drag on every turn? Thanks!

I have a Sig Perf w/21's, ~6000 miles and no appreciable wear on either front or rear tires.

@mallynb, the MS does have a differential on the drive axle. It does have a single gear "transmission".

Concerning tire wear, I always leave Traction Control ON!

I have tested and driven extensively on curvey roads (Mt. Hamilton Road in SJ) as well as distance.

I don't think the wear issue being seen is a general issue for 21's.

cheers,

jd3

lola - Please keep us informed about what you find out and decide wrt upper camber arm link. I haven't found anyone locally that I trust to straighten my rears. So far, Tesla has not offered a solution.

jd3tm: Thanks! I misunderstood that the single step-down gear was in the rear axle.

Cross Posting from TMC

The calculations are correct on the upper suspension arm. I was able to go from -1.9 to -0.9 degrees of negative camber with a modified link.

I was also able to adjust rear toe back within specifications (and beyond) so there is NO need for new toe arms; only top link arms are needed.

It is time to make a set of proper arms. Tesla uses rubber arm end bushings that have a particularly large inner sleeve made from aluminum. This serves to reduce the amount of rubber making the bushings less compliant and doing a better job of controlling the suspension. Regretfully, Tesla only sells the arms with bushings and not the bushings themselves.

Does anyone know where to get these?
http://www.lolachampcar.com/images/T...%20bushing.pdf
http://www.lolachampcar.com/images/T...on/Bushing.JPG

nhurst,
Tesla set the camber where it is on purpose and they offered no provisions for changing it (no adjustability) so I would not think they would offer a solution to something they do not see as a problem.

To be perfectly clear, I do not consider it a problem with the car. I consider it a design choice that I prefer to, and am comfortable with, changing.

lola - I understand. However my right rear is OUT of spec at -2.2 (the wrong direction in my judgment) and I would prefer to run about -0.8. I would appreciate any information you could share about your revised arms. (Drawings, availability, cost, installation difficulty, your experiences, etc. all would be appreciated.)

nhurst,
I did not want to point you or anyone away from the stuff I am looking at. I just wanted to make sure I was not seen as dinging Tesla, their engineers or the car.

It took me two hours today to (very slowly) install an adjustable arm and test my wireframe drawings and subsequent calculations. In short, I figured I needed 0.21" of added length to stand the tire up (decrease negative camber) by one degree. The drawing is referenced below and I've included a pic of the adjustable arm I used. The process also involved checking that there was sufficient toe adjustment in the stock suspension such that new toe links were not required. As it turns out, there is a lot of toe adjustment, more than sufficient to take out one and a half degrees of camber without new toe arms (on my car).

I have quotes from a machine shop to generate a set of longer arms. I need to put the final touches on the drawing so that there is sufficient material in the ends to allow for setting the bushing bore centerline anywhere from a 0.8 to 1.4 change. I'll then have a set made at 1 as a first test.

The links themselves will not be cheap. There is the basic cost of the aluminum part and then there is the bushing problem. Right now, my only option is to buy new links from Tesla and use those bushings (bushing cost of $220 per link or $440 for the set) or press the bushings out of the arms I pull off my car and use them. I'll likely take the second path but I suspect most anyone else will want to keep the original parts and will not want to exchange the originals for the longer units. I'm just guessing on that one.

Anyway, back to where I started this. I would think it would take two hours total to replace both links followed by an alignment.

The adjustable arm
http://www.lolachampcar.com/images/Tesla/Rear%20Suspension/Upper%20Arm.JPG

The every expensive cheap bushing
http://www.lolachampcar.com/images/Tesla/Rear%20Suspension/Bushing.JPG

My original wireframe drawing showing camber gain and required arm length to stand the tire up by one degree... It is simple but did the trick
http://www.lolachampcar.com/images/Tesla/Rear%20Geometry%20Model.pdf

if it will help, my e
mail
is
bill
at
lolachampcar
with a normal dot com at the end.
Bill

I had less than 500 miles on my Model S when I had to replace the two right tires after going over some 3" beveled road separators at about 30 mph. The sidewalls were ruined and the front wheel cracked from driving about 1/4 mile to a safe place to stop. These tires, 21" Michelins, must be eggshells. Obviously, I shouldn't have driven over the separators which I failed to avoid when confronting them unexpectedly. But really, complete failure of two tires simultaneously?

New links in from the machine shop and off to be anodized.

http://www.lolachampcar.com/images/Tesla/New%20Upper%20Arms/new_upper_re...

This appears to be false alarm site. Over 4,500 miles on my Sig performance with 21" wheels, not a light driver on pedal, took to service center today for other reasons, asked them to check tires, no tire wear problem at all.

jdb,
That is very good news. I was not so lucky and saw measurable wear within the first 800 miles (thus my panic).

I have a few hundred miles on my links now including some hard acceleration both in a straight line and side loaded with no change in stability. The car does seem to follow grooves in the road a bit more but I think that is a result of now having absolutely no toe front or rear.

Lola, amazing that you did all that. I hope it all works out well for you regarding wear and tear. Do these mods affect your warranty in anyway? Hope you are safe there.


X Deutschland Site Besuchen