If Tesla comes up with 120KWh to 140KWh battery pack in 5 to 6 years, will u be willing to pay for a swap?? If so, up to how much, and what will be the fair way to that......calculate based on mileage on car or #of full discharges of current pack??
yes, of course
It depends. If the Supercharger network is built out and I can do my long distance travels without too much headache, then I might stick with my 85 battery. It really is more than enough for my everyday needs.
It depends on whether I would rather just upgrade to the most recent Tesla vehicle release. Model S is future proof to an extent, but if they eventually upgrade to Nvidia Tegra 4 or deliver a plethora of other option that cannot be retrofitted onto the Model S.
If the replacement battery 85 is 14,000 then I would expect the 120 - 140 to at least be 20,000-25,000. Just my opinion though, but based on today's figures instead of 6 years from now
Not just for the battery, assuming the superchargers (and possibly other recharging infrastructure) is in place as hoped. Charging at home is more than adequate for all of my normal driving, so an upgrade would only be for road trips.
@edfin Remember, larger the pack, the theoretical higher/faster performance...
5 years (say 70K miles from now) trading in my 85KW with 225 max mile(?) battery for a new shiny 120 KW 375 mile battery with a 8 year warranty would be very attractive. Since several time per year I drive 500 miles/day.
My normal 30 minute lunch stop would give me enough range to complete my 500 mile day. I could fully charge overnight and repeat if necessary.
That being said, I likely could not justify the delta cost. So I would pay the $100 (or so) cost of a 120KW battery swap when I needed the extra range.
Not just for the battery. I agree with @cloroxxbb regarding processors. That's something that is outdated the minute it's installed.
Larger packs probably will need a software and potentially a hardware upgrade. I would imagine Tesla will leave the current Model S packs as they are on 2013 production units even if something better comes along. New Model S' may have better packs and new vehicle types going forward may also benefit from better chemistry, larger cell count, etc.
The issue is probably validation of new packs and new chemistries. I hear it can be time consuming and if there are only a few of us geeky enough to consider spending tens of thousands of dollars to upgrade... you can draw your own conclusions. :-)
As I have said in an earlier post on this forum, I'm really not in the market for an S unless it comes with a bigger battery capacity OR there is a Supercharger along the route I must travel regularly (in Sweden). Both of these events today appear to lie in some distant future. This makes me a bit sad. But as a small-time investor I cheer at TSLA's development! It might help me pay for next-generation battery.
Yes, 120-140 kWh would be perfect for me Upgrade or new car depends how the new car looks at that time The cells for the larger battery must be in full production in 3 years, w/o Gen3 cost targets can not be reached. I am sure some pre-production versions are already in road testing. How TM rolls out the new cells is unknown, my guess would be MX or high performance MS.
@Jewish...it's my understanding the main brain, the software, for the battery pack is designed to be within the pack itself. So a new will always come with the new software.
I wonder if any other battery producers will jump in on this bandwagon.
Everything I've ever known about electric radio control cars will work in the Tesla design. You folks who own them will see batteries that will offer a lot more power and capacity to run longer ranges. These cars are not going to be limited in terms of electrical technology. It's just the tip of the iceberg.
I also think another electric motor should be added to supply more charging to the batteries. I used to run an electric motor off of my drive axle on my radio controlled to power lights (with a belt and pully). Electric motors can produce their own energy when spun up as well without any electrical power input. Cool stuff.
I also think another electric motor should be added to supply more charging to the batteries. How's that going to work? The engergy needs to come from somewhere. What am I missing?
deez; Another id*** suggestion that confuses producing drag on the car for getting fee energy.
Kleist; The GenIII is anticipated to have a 200 mile range. It is not a supercar upgrade to the MS. It is a mass-market lower priced car.
Brian H - I get that... the $35k Gen3 will be equivalent in range to S60. Cost has to be half so for the battery it means half the number of cells. Let's say 3000 cells make 50 kWh battery then the individual cell has to be 17-18 Wh ( today's cell 11.3 Wh ). Put 7500 new cells into a Model S and you get about 130 kWh - and there you have it. I was talking about a 120-140 kWh MS only.
Key point is in order to make the cost for a 200 miles Gen3 the battery chemistry has to improve by about 50%. And Elon has to have pre-production cells testing today or he will never make the 2016/17 target date.
deez; When "spun up" by what? That's the source of any energy they produce.
kwh doesn't equal better performance, it just could mean more density in the batteries. what equals better performance would be increase in the number of batteries. i think if they come out with bigger battery it would be just change in the chemistry so may not see an increase in performance.
look at the 85kw batteries, only difference between standard and performance is the inverter.
i think the 60kw battery has less # of cells and like wise for the 40kw, that is why it is less power/performance.
elon mention this in an interview where they solved performance without going with supercapacitors.
The infotainment display on the MS is fully integrated with the electronic mother board and accessories so that the whole unit may be upgraded. Batteries do not store power, they store energy. It takes more energy to support higher power. The MS 60 can accelerate as fast as a P85 with the proper power electronics. It just would not have a usefully range. The current range of he S 85 will serve my needs well so I have no need to upgrade.
No I wouldn't upgrade. No need.
the more kwh in the battery, the more kwh you can send to the motor.
According to www.teslamotors.com/models/facts
"◾As energy storage capacity increases, so does the total power. This results in quicker acceleration"
@eddiemoy............more density = more battery power for same# of cells == More Mileage/Less Expensive Vehicle == also more performance with more current if preferred......
How long would it take to charge a 120kw battery on a standard nema14-50? Assume 400 mile range, 25 miles/ hour, you're looking at 16 hours of overnight charging. Most people aren't even home that long. And what would you do on a road trip if you pulled up to a SC with 250 miles remaining? Skip it, and risk arriving at the next SC needing 300 miles of charge, but finding no open bays for who knows how long?
Since most of us will stop at every SC anyways, and would rarely charge up fully at night (from anywhere near empty), I believe that we are pretty close to driving the future of EV battery capacity. If anything, I think advances will be made in the area of efficiency, where an 85kwh battery will get us 320-340 miles.
Folks, keep in mind that Tesla has stated that Gen 3 will have approximately 200 mile range. If their next generation platform is expected to come in at 200 miles - presumably because that number puts it within reach of most superchargers - then I would not expect any development towards a 500 mile battery. Tesla also needs Gen 3 to be a profitable vehicle at reduced cost, and a big part of that equation is not only to reduce battery costs by the time we get to Gen 3, but also to put in a small battery to keep costs even lower.
I'm just trying to keep my expectations real and grounded. I think those expecting larger battery packs and longer range are not listening to what Tesla is saying.
@AmpedRealtor....perhaps u should listen more closely....Tesla main battery guy few weeks ago has said the technology for 400-500miles battery in his opinion is within reach soon....
@GettingOldFast....my assumption is people will fully charge a 400Kwh battery when doing long distance travels for the most part...and they will probably do it in multiple days of charging not in one night......
Bigger battery = longer charging time. I probably would not do it. 10 hours at home to get full charge on s85 (from 5 mi RR) with 1 charger. I can already go round trip Sacramento - SF on a single charge...
You think there is going to be a larger battery pack because the technology is "within reach" according to "the main battery guy" at Tesla who prefers to go nameless much like the "insider sources" to the Weekly World News. And even if the technology is "within reach", that does not mean it is practical to implement or even something Tesla wants to do. If Tesla was planning on a longer range battery, why would they not be promoting this as they are promoting everything else? I mean, they have no problem pre-announcing battery swapping which is just vaporware until it's actually implemented, so if they had longer range batteries in the works I'm sure they would love to promote that or at least hint that Gen 3 will have longer range.
Tesla says Gen 3 will have a 200 mile range, and everything Tesla is doing is to get them to Gen 3. A 500 mile battery is not in the cards, I'm afraid, no matter how much you want that to be the case. Don't take the word of someone who knows someone whose 3rd cousin twice removed heard from a friend at the water cooler that "the main battery guy" at Tesla said that 500 mile batteries are "within reach".
Good lord! LOL
You haven't been paying attention. Right after the battery swap event, Samosam reported on this forum what he had learned from a discussion with JB Straubel (Tesla CTO), and that is where the 4-500 mile quote came from.
He wasn't quoted as saying that Tesla planned to use it, but he was surely talking about their own research.
@AmpedRealtor.....if u open ur ears a little bit more and yap a little less maybe you would have known who said it.....it's not an "insider source" who said it.....it's well known who said it....it's JB Straubel, Chief Technical Officer of Tesla.....I recommend you take a little more precaution when typing away while taking ur usual refreshment beverage. U seem to have a little difficulty handling ur beverage. Aside from that, as Kleist already said, it's IMPOSSIBLE to produce a Gen 3 model car for half the price of model S w/o developing a battery technology which has a range capacity of about 400miles for a simmilarily sized current model S pack. I believe that is apparent to most people. Perhaps not to u!
@ d_kaufman, thanks for the background info. I'm just saying that I doubt very much such a battery is in the cards. People seem to be getting their hopes up, my point is to keep expectations realistic because then there is less room for disappointment.
Musk himself is made the statement at the 4/27/13 battery announcement: http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogowsky/2013/04/27/tesla-better-warrant... He was being coy because of the pending battery swap announcement. The ideal would be to keep your lower-energy battery for a long time and swap to a 170kWh battery when leaving town. Superchargers in the future would ramp up the power to accommodate the energy level of the battery pack. It would be awesome to have a 500 mile rated battery for road trips. There are a lot of places I like to drive that just don't have superchargers scheduled (i.e. Las Vegas to Reno, Yosemite, etc).
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