I'm not even sure if this is possible. I thought I'd check with Tesla if there is interest from anyone.... not looking to make much, maybe just a little something to justify parking $5k to reserve one for the past couple of years.
Is it 8% per annun or is there a nice round number you wish to achieve? Bruce
Gordon, i might be interested..
Feel free to call me at 678.250.7062 to discuss. I'd be happy with 8% per annum...
Well my oppinion is ... that money can't counterbalance the joy for you and the benefit to the world to this little invest. 8% is nothing to the effect you produce investing to a CO² free world. Why spending money for aid organisations and trying to win some pence interest? This makes no sense.
We were not born to earn money, we have to live with sense, i.e. to get the the world a better one. This is evolution. Running after money is a big step back. Think in your responsibility as human being.
@firstname.lastname@example.org you are not being fair. You do not know the reason why Gordon is selling his spot. He made it clear that he has no intention of doing this as a business model. It may be that he just needs the money now, and who is to blame him for that or even question his moral right to do so? Without knowing -- and I do not even want to know, it is none of my business -- it is well possible that Gordon is anything but happy with selling his option.
I myself am considering to sell my spot. In my case, making a little extra money would be the only reason to do so, and I would add another reservation at the end of the queue in the very moment. Even in this case, you cannot blame me for selling the CO2-benefit. "My" Tesla will be driven, and it will replace an ICE. Just that possibly I will not be the one driving it.
Has Tesla said this is even allowed? Seems akin to ticket scalping.
I currently have Sig 234 and P 951. I will only be purchasing one car. I have kept the P in case I do not like something about the Signature. I doubt that Tesla would allow me to reassign the spot. In any case I will not be selling as I feel it is not ethical.
Ethical? I see no problem in selling at all. And Tesla should have no beef, or in fact any say in the matter. It's a reservation to purchase, and they're not losing anything if it changes hands.
Seems akin to ticket scalping. (ckessel)
Not quite. Tesla themselves have taken measures against it by allowing only a maximum of four (I think) reservations per natural person. Ticket scalping only makes sense as a business model if you resell more than four units...
Brian H, that is my view on it as well.
I am thinking of reserving the Model S. I would be interested in purchasing your reservation if it is allowed. Check and see if this is possible and then we can talk about how much more than 5000.00 you are looking for.
polera257, you may be able to buy Gordon's, if he has not parted with his reservation yet. He posted his number earlier in this thread. I will keep my reservation until the last minute, b/c obviously, it will be worth more when the queue is longer. And I am becoming more and more excited about my Model S, so it will be a tough call and maybe it will become impossible for me to sell... ;-)
If you reserve now through the regular process, you are not too bad. As far as current guesstimates go, you still have a decent chance to receive your Model S in 2012. So my advice: Just go for it!
I'm interested in an earlier reservation spot as well for a Model S. I just reserved mine and am last in line :( Unfortunately, I don't have the cash for a $40K deposit for a $80-$90K car to get the Sig. Please email me if you are willing to part with your reservation slot: email@example.com
you cannot blame me for selling the CO2-benefit. "My" Tesla will be driven, and it will replace an ICE
When calculating CO2 benefits, I think you've got to consider the amount of CO2 produced in building a new car, even a Tesla. The ICE you are replacing may be driven by someone else, too; they may or may not have driven a vehicle prior. Therefore, the CO2 benefit derived may be more from greenwashing than reality.
Building a car has negligible effect on CO2 production compared to actually using it. Even for EV with ordinary electricity source mixture.
When calculating CO2 benefits, I think you've got to consider the amount of CO2 produced in building a new car, even a Tesla. The ICE you are replacing may be driven by someone else, too (Peak Oil bruin)
In that case, I have a moral obligation to sell my spot. I have not owned a car for more than a decade. Living in Berlin, Germany, I get along with public transportation, bike, and rental cars quite well. But I want to own a Model S, so if you are not too opposed, I will consider keeping my reservation slot... ;-)
Peak Oil bruin, your argument is of course totally valid in itself. "Replacing" a brand new ICE (in the extreme case) does not help the environment one bit when that very ICE is sold and driven by someone else. And even trashing the ICE only makes sense environmentally, if it is a real bad gas guzzler, or if it was about to be replaced due to (mile)age, anyway. It is only in the long run, that EVs may actually "replace" ICEs in the global scheme of things.
However, as far as I can see, this argument does not argue for or against selling a reservation spot. You can argue that I should sell my reservation spot because I do not have an ICE to replace. You can argue that I shouldn't, because if I did the ICE of the person I sell it to is going to be driven by someone else, anyway. You can argue, that I'd better drive an EV than an ICE rental car, and that owning an EV is currently the only way of driving one, because Sixt does not offer EVs (yet), at least not in the class that the Model S represents. Still, I do not feel any moral inhibition of offering my spot for sale if/when it is convenient for me.
Gordon, did Tesla respond to you as to whether selling your spot is allowed? If so, did you sell it?
I the event that some one would like to sell me their early reservation. Please feel free to contact me. 757 652 7892 I am not sure how if we need Tesla permission? Thanks Olivier
This is what it said in the contract I signed:
"6. Deferral and Non-Transferability
If you do not wish to enter into a Purchase Agreement at the time that you are contacted by Tesla, you have the option to relinquish your reservation sequence position and defer to a later position to be determined by us (only one deferral is permitted). If you do not communicate your decision to us within ten (10) days of notification under paragraph 4, you will automatically be granted such a deferral. This Agreement is not transferable or assignable to another party without the prior written approval of a Tesla authorized representative."
If anyone is to capitalize on the Secondary market of reselling Reservation Sequence #'s, it should be Tesla. Rather then collapsing the Reservation list of Depositors, I propose that Tesla consider providing those who would like to vacate their RS#'s with either a refund or an opportunity to migrate(priority bases) their deposit towards any future EV Tesla will have to offer. Once that RS#'s is vacated, we, the share holders and Reservation\Deposit holders should give Tesla the privilege of reselling the vacated RS#'s at an auctioned\bided price.... not impacting the final purchase price, simply increasing the amount that a previous depositor or new purchaser is willing to pay for an earlier or first time RS#. There are all sorts of reasons why a present RS# holders may need or want to vacate; at the time of commitment , they may not have the cash or available financing to close, they may be swayed towards the Model X , Roadster, Cabriolet, Economy EV.....This would significantly increase Tesla's cash flow and would eliminate the "scalpers, "stubhubs", "Craiglisters" and "resellers", giving control of the Secondary market back Tesla and those who have a vested interest in the success of this company, the investors and customers. I,for one, wouldn't feel the least bit slighted if RS# ,say2000, payed $20,000 for his RS#, wouldn't matter what priority I had on the reservation sequence list. Who knows, maybe Elon could get his friends at E-bay to manage it. If well orchestrated, this could be a huge source of advertising and excitement, nobody losses here.
To be clear: are you suggesting that the person who moves up the list pay for that privilege, or just increase the deposit so there's less to pay when purchasing?
@EdG The straight answer is yes, to both. The objective here would be to increase Tesla's cash flow, manage vacated RS#'s, eliminate the Secondary market, give priority to present Deposit holders if they choose to move their Reservation Deposit towards, say, the Model X and not discourage new potential customers with extremely long delivery dates by giving them an opportunity to bid on a RS# if they are willing to pay a considerably higher deposit than you and I did when we made our reservation. Incidentally, that wouldn't stop you or I from bidding on an earlier RS# if one were to available. "At the end of the day", we'll have to come up with the purchase price anyway. The real winner here is TSLA.
@EdG, DenisVincent "or just increase the deposit so there's less to pay when purchasing?" "yes"
Given that option, I think a significant portion (likely 10% or more) of the P reservation holders current and future would consider just offering the entire payment up front once the first Signature configurations are reported. Basically, paying their way to the top of the P line by matching/beating a Sig reserve but paying less than a Sig for the final vehicle.
Once the cars are rolling off the line, and given the low interest rates people are getting at the bank, many people would be interested in paying for a larger percentage of their purchase.
At some point, it might turn out that many people are putting up the entire purchase price beforehand to "bid" (not sure if that's the right word) on an earlier slot.
@EdG Those that may want an earlier RS# could only bid those that have been vacated by RS# holders. No one is displaced in the priority list of Depositors, we all keep our RS#.
Interesting concept. even more intriguing is that the middle reservation numbers may bid up to early reservation numbers, then vacate the middle reservation numbers which will then theoretically be available as well, cascading the effect until back to where the reservations are current.
Although, as an economist, I can appreciate the elegance of a "bid for slots" allocation, Americans generally find it deeply undemocratic to be able to buy your way to the head of a line. The general Signature/production split is a limited departure, but the more complex mechanism described above would, I think, be very poorly received by most people.
Well, there's "fairness" and there's capitalism.
For the right price, I'd sell my Signature S the day after taking delivery. But that price might have seven (dollar) digits. ;)
I think, in practice, what would happen is many people would cough up the rest of the purchase price sooner. So the net effect, except for those who sit tight, would be to simply compress the list, erasing the evacuated spot. Which is what would happen without the "bidding" idea anyway, again excepting those who ignored the issue.
So I agree that it would just be "poorly received".
I think there is a difference between paying to create a new position in front of you in the line, thus delaying your gratification, and taking over someone else's previously allocated position. I think people are mostly resentful when someone gets priority treatment, but is taking over another spot a "priority treatment"?
I also think that it is less threatening when they are simply putting a bigger deposit down such that their total expenditure is no larger than what you are going to pay anyway. It would be different if they were throwing more money than you can afford at the problem, but you will eventually be paying that money, you're just holding on to the cash longer. Though for some, they may not have the money until they have a deliverable product to use as collateral for a loan, so the luxury of paying a larger deposit isn't open to them. Still, it is less of an annoyance compared to someone who throws away money to get priority treatment, no?
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