Page 4 of Q4 shareholder letter: http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ABEA-4CW8X0/2312381086x0x637040/4...
Koz; "Not offering" Supercharging, and slower performance, is inherent in the size. SC stations would have to be much closer together for 40s to use them; away from the dense centers, even 60s will have trouble. And they take just as long to charge, on a % basis, but much longer on a kWh basis.
Speed is an inherent function of total battery capacity (more cells "pushing the cart").
What part of "city car" "commuter car" didn't you get or believe?
Has ANYONE here asked Tesla about this yet? What are they telling you about when you'll get your 40KWH car?
Some have hoped that Tesla is reading this thread. Better to pick up the phone and try to get some real info about your particular reservation before getting too disappointed.
Just took your advice and called, for my #8467, delivery in 4 TO 6 Months from today!
That's pretty disappointing. Did they give you any options for improving that like upgrading to 60 KWH or at least an offer of a refund?
I asked about upgrading to the 60 and he said that they would call back. (We'll see). You would think that they would have more information; I did get the impression that the standard air is going to be later than expected (Sorry). I had called the Costa Mesa service center a few months back and asked about getting an extra mobile connector, and they never called back either.
I ordered a 40KWH and switched to the 85KWH after reading the "real miles" reports on this board for the early deliveries.
Love my 85KWH.
I stand by my contention that a $70K car needs to get more than 100 miles of range. If I were Tesla, I'd work hard to upgrade the 40"s to 60's - and never make the 40 in the Model S family.
There is a market for a 100 mile car - but not at this price point.
Why would you buy a top of the line laptop if it only had 45 minutes of battery life and took 4 hours to recharge? I'd accept that in a $299 laptop, but not a $2K laptop.
Love this car, love this company, I accept the early adopter risks - they have exceeded my expectations - it's a beautiful car and I know there are quirks with it I haven't even discovered.
This is one of those situations where you have to interpret the market realities and make the correct long term decision - maybe that is what they are doing by pushing out the 40KWH deliveries. This is exactly what I would do - but allow an incentive to upgrade from the 40 to the 60.
I guarantee many people are already doing it.
(Side Note- I just recently sold my Apple Newton 2100 for $1200 - 17 years after it was released - for exactly what I paid for it. Maybe there will be a market for the Tesla 40KWH in the future as a novelty.)
"Only 10% of configuration are 40kwh" humm probably because alot of them are gently forced to choose 60 or wait or cancelled reservation like me
Yes the 40 is the Tesla Lost Leader and Vaporware all at the same time. Like going to a dealer for a car, but it was sold to the owners kid, but it is still advertised, and they keep forgetting to change the advertisement.
I don't understand why 85kWh'ers who defend Tesla's delay of the 40kWH are posting in this thread. I suppose they are trying to make the 40kWh'ers feel better about having to wait but they do this from the position of having their Model S in their garage. If the tables were turned and 85kWh'ers where having their cars delayed in favor of other sizes, you would not see as much support to Tesla's decision to delay production.
CL; That's "Loss Leader". Vapourware? Getting kinda close to libelous, there. You have a "right" to be petulant, but it's pretty unimpressive stuff.
In the marketplace, there's lots of competition for 100 mile EVs. Maybe that's part of the reason the 40 is the lowest-selling. But TM has the 160 and 260-mile market to itself.
As a follow-up to Chuck's post, I spoke with a representative on the delivery information line (888-771-2505) and he confirmed that production of the 40 kWh configuration was delayed until this summer. When I pressed him for an explanation he said the sales and support teams learned of the production delay the same way the general public did - via the investor letter. After some additional conversation, he said he'd reach out to other people in the organization to get more information and call me back. Sure enough, about 10 minutes later he called back and said the reason for the production delay is the 40 kWh battery. It's not ready.
On a positive note, I thought he handled a difficult situation very well and I thanked him for his polite demeanor, patience and persistence. Unfortunately, that's where the positive notes end. Why an organization would blindside ~10% of it's customer base (approximately 1,500 people) by burying a bombshell in an investor letter is beyond me. By not preparing the organization for the fallout associated with the announcement, management placed their employees in the unenviable position of getting hammered with questions and complaints without any information or direction. It all comes off as very amateur.
At the end of the calll, I explained my position: I'm not willing to hang out for another 3 to 6 months to see if Tesla can actually produce the car that I contracted to purchase last August. He asked if I would be interested in upgrading to the 60 kWh configuration for the standard $10K price. I explained that I simply didn't have another $10K to sink into this car. I then asked if I could get my deposit back and walk away. He said he would check on that and get back to me by the end of next week.
I must say, this is a sad state to be in. I was truly excited about becoming a Model S customer; but, at this point I don't think that's in the cards. I honestly cannot abide waiting until sometime this summer to receive a car I contracted to purchase last summer. That's just not reasonable. If Tesla returns my deposit I'll walk away disappointed and dismayed but essentially intact, except for my pride. Quite a few of my friends bet me that my "car of the future" would never materialize. I guess they were right...
Tshock, thanks for some good information. That is oddly reassuring compared to "a desperate attempt to squeeze out a profit" narritive that I was expecting. I hope you can get the car at some point if you can't hold out now.
@tshock, I called and asked the same questions today, the answer I got about dropping out is that I would get a full refund no problem. Which is the only good news I have been told in a long time from Tesla.
What I really want is that all electric Nissan NV200 minivan, perhaps that will materialize before a 40 Tesla.
Thanks Brian, I'm glad that I still have my right to be petulant, yea thanks for the sarcastic complement.
My point is the crappy communication on Tesla's part, which caused lot's of us early res holders to make additional purchases to "Speed" up our orders.
Solarpowered, just out of interest, where do you live that surplus power is forfeited at the end of 12 months, and are paying $.36 per kWh?
I'm in Las Vegas, and surplus power credits never expire. (And pay $.12/ kWh)
Also the still from the Tesla options page: http://www.teslamotors.com/models/options in the table under the 40 kWh column, Enters Production: Spring 2013, That was recently changed from Winter 2012. I see that it was changed on 1/16/2013, so why no email or phone call. And don't give me the crap that we don't want to take Tesla off task by wasting their time, they can easly use a calling machine, and send a recording, in a few hours.
As a 60kwh owner (for just 2 weeks), I can only begin to feel the pain of all that reserved the 40kwh's. When I placed my 5K down over 2.5 years ago (p2234) I foolishly thought I was #2234 in line. When people who put down their 5K in mid 2012 got their car before me, I was seriously pissed...and missing the 2012 tax break is yet another sore point.
I'd be fine if they gave the 40's a chance to upgrade to 60, with a small break (maybe $500) as a sign of good faith.
Congrats on your new car!
Since I have already installed my solar for the car, I'll just have to wait longer to get the car. But you have to think, will I really get the car, the EPA on the 60 came on schedule, and not witt the 40. How do we not know that it will be delayed again in 6 months?
BarryFinn: Residential power on the island of Oahu, HI is about 36 cents/kWH. It's higher on the other islands. The utility company has set up a program where photovoltaic owners can use the electrical grid as a storage system. Surplus power generated during the summer months can be rolled over during the shorter daylight winter months. These rollover kWHs, however, have to be used within each 12 month period and cannot be accumulated beyond the anniversary of the metering agreement inception date.
Wow, didn't know power was so expensive in HI!!
Actually, in total contrast to all the other EV mfrs., it seems TM is having a hard time making a car battery as small as 40kWh, their maximum. A bit amusing.
But they managed it for the RAV4 EV. I wonder what the critical difference is.
I agree 100%
Tesla throw us a bone. I think most of us 40s would upgrade to the 60 if incentivized. Speaking for myself, the only reason I'm a 40 and not 60 is $. Make us an offer that i cannot walk away from, stop taking orders for the 40, save your time and money to develop the smaller battery in your gen 3 or when you have sufficient resources.
Realize that Tesla has still not communicated with 40kwh reservation holders regarding this delay. Those who do not frequent this forum (there must be at least one or two) may still be expecting a call any day to arrange for delivery in a few weeks. I had been told my car would be one of the first 40kwh's built and that I should have it in March.
This lack of communication, from my perspective, is simply inexcusable.
We still do not know the reason for the delay. Instead we have one report from a reservation holder regarding his conversation with one Tesla rep. Given previous reports of incorrect and conflicting info given by reps, this is worthless.
We also have a bunch of pontificating from amateur financial analysts explaining why Tesla just can't afford to build these cars yet. Which is silly because, again, we still do not know the reason for the delay. (And if Tesla is delaying production to increase short term profits, that too would be inexcusable. In my world, ethics and morality and honoring commitments is still important .)
We also don't know the anticipated length of the delay. The shareholder report, as I recall, states "later this summer". Maybe it is just me, but I don't know what that means. If it were the summer now, I would understand that. Does it really mean late this summer or later this year? Damned if I know. And of course, we haven't heard anything directly from Tesla.
What would go a long way towards appeasing me, would be the following. I consider all of this to be reasonable, but, unfortunately, expect none of it to happen.
1. An apology for the appalling lack of communication and courtesy displayed towards reservation holders. 2. An explanation for the delay. 3. A current projection for the start of production. 4. Monthly status reports sent to reservation holders with updates regarding (2) and (3). 5. Production sequence number for each reservation holder. For example, I am p2748, but I do not know how many 40's are ahead of me.
I ain't holding my breath.
mbergman: Great post. I would also add a #6:
6. If delayed again as suggested in Q4 shareholder letter, what our options are at this point: wait, cancel (with deposit refund?), upgrade to 60 kWh (with or without some discount).
I feel really bad about folks that finalized on their 40 thinking production would start in March. The right thing for Tesla to do is to provide all of them with a revised expected delivery date and 30 days to decide if they want to cancel their order and receive a full refund. Tesla should also allow these reservation holders with the option of upgrading to the 60/85.
Communication can be massively improved. It shouldn't be a state secret when the 40s, multi-color reds, or standard suspensions will start delivery. Monthly updates with brief explanation for changes would be very helpful.
I don't think any of us can speak to the delayed production being an issue of profit margins. Batteries are a very expensive component and we simply do not know the cost difference between a 40, 60 and 85kWhr battery pack.
Actually, djm12, I'm pretty sure my signed mvpa has an estimated delivery date of December/January (2012-2013, not 2013-2014).
I signed an MVPA for a 40 about a month ago. Earlier this week I signed a new MVPA for a 60. I still have pre-January base pricing.
mbergman +1. How hard can it be for Tesla to hire a team of 2-3 PR people to put out mbergman's suggestions? I'm in sales and learned long ago that communication with the client is the most important factor in gaining good will and closing a sale. If I have bad news or even no news for a client, I communicate the news quickly. Clients appreciate that. Blankenship has admitted in the past to having done a terrible job in communication and promised to improve. It is not hard for Tesla to keep this promise but just like the promises to deliver the 40kWh by Dec and then by March, Tesla has failed.
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