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Price for Model S in Europe?

Hello all...i like to know the prices for the Model S in Europe ?!! maybe this question has alredy been hanser , if thats true im sory.

Right now the Dollar is 0.770 to 1 Euro, so that makes the 57,000 Dollar Tesla Model S 40KW , 43,890 Euro.

I guess there is transportation and other stuff to take in counter to bring the Model S from the USA to Europe, But how much more? if its the same literal translation from dollar to euro, i think its to much for hus here in europe to pay.

Many thxs

TM said that pricing for different regions will be announced six months prior to deliveries in that region, because of international currency volatility.

They could just announce the price in dollars for european cars now. Everyone knows the currency changes, but we are curious about how big a surcharge Tesla will add on to export versions. Current guesses seems to be about 90% of the $ amount in €.

Most European countries add 20-25% VAT in car prices. That alone is enough to make car price to match about just changing dollar to euro in price tag. Add other taxes and costs and you look at car that costs somewhere around 30-50% more here than it does in US.

VAT should be kept out of the pricing. In Norway it is 0% for EVs. Some US states have sales tax too, making in more expensive over there.

What is interesting is how much extra Tesla wants to charge for european spec cars + shipping & delivery charges. The rest we can calculate for ourselves.

Filipe - i think its to much for hus here in europe to pay.

The model S is not intended to be a mass market car. It's priced higher to help fund the model X (still fairly high priced) ultimately leading to a mass market priced car.

The talk in Australia is the cost of "homologation". I looked up the word, and it means, i guess, the cost of meeting local regulations, not just taxes and the like. Allegedly, these costs are very high here in Australia, as apparently when submitting vehicles, multiple government entities are involved and each and every one charges for the pleasure.
Aside from this, there is transportation, marine insurance, and finally imp or taxes and charges, so that, over all, cars here cost about double what they do in the USA, and that includes downmarket vehicles. The Nissan leaf will sell in Australia for $52000.00!!! Who in their right mind will buy a small car for that price, even if you are a mad greenie?
I assume that similar "homologation" will be required in Europe and of course, Portugal.

Boa noite amigo! Eu tambem pense que o preco e um nivel muito alto!

Here are some estimates for Germany:
http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/incentives-verg%C3%BCnstigungen-...

That said, I am sure there will be a competitive/political component to the pricing. Simply naming the price in dollars and leaving the conversion to coincidence does not cut it. We are not talking about importing an exotic single unit to the European market. We will be buying from European Tesla Stores. I don't expect that prices for the Model S float with the currency on a daily basis.

I bet the European price will take into account the corresponding prices for (ICE) premium sedans in the respective market. Also, I would not be surprised if Tesla would slice options for the European market differently, e.g., offer micro fiber seating with seat heating or a different Tech Package. We will eventually see, but until then, I would not rule out anything.

Also, I would not tie down Tesla to their European pricing strategy just now (as if I could... ;-). That might as well turn out to be to our disadvantage. Give them some time to see how the American market reacts to their American prices, and to see how the currency develops and how the European premium manufacturers price their 2012 models and slice their options. Although I am centainly as impatient as anybody, I am sure we will learn soon enough, and until then I hope for a nice surprise.

Tesla would be unwise to quote any prices in Europe until there is greater stability on the political and economic front. Basic questions like, "will sales in Germany be denominated in Euros or Deutschmarks?" cannot be answered with perfect confidence. Given these fundamental FX risks and the delivery timetable, I would be surprised to see any non-North American pricing released before Q3.

Also, I would not be surprised if Tesla would slice options for the European market differently, e.g., offer micro fiber seating with seat heating or a different Tech Package. We will eventually see, but until then, I would not rule out anything. (myself)

I just had a very pleasant phone call from Steve Davies, EU Inside Sales. He kind of confirmed my assumption by saying that he'd be surprised if options were literally the same for Europe as they have been published now for the US market.

Nothing authoritative can be said about European options and pricing at this time, except that they will not necessarily mirror American options and pricing. Thus, Europeans can still revel in speculations, hopes and dreams for the time being...

I'm a P reservation holder in Norway. In Europe the countries all have different levels of tax/VAT and import duties that will all result in different pricing. For example Norway at the moment has 0% duty and 0% VAT on fully electric cars, while neighboring countries have the same duty and VAT which will make the price very different I presume.

However, this really does not affect how much Tesla makes on the car. I guess they will have some additional cost (maybe) when making the European models because they will have to meet a different standard and other safety regulations, maybe other documentation. Then there will be ofcourse the cost assosiated with shipping overseas. But I think that, regardless of currenct fluctuations, Tesla would be able to "name a price" in USD for the European cars (including the above mentioned) and then the European customers can just calculate how much the final price will be in their country with duty, VAT etc. taken into consideration. Am I missing something here?

"the same duty and VAT" --> "the same duty and VAT as reguler ICE cars". Sorry.

Johan;
Are any going the route yet of adding extra taxes to EVs to make up for the loss of gasoline-tax revenues? (Road tax, mileage tax, tolls, etc.)

;)
8-0 !!

Tesla would be able to "name a price" in USD for the European cars (including the above mentioned) and then the European customers can just calculate how much the final price will be in their country with duty, VAT etc. taken into consideration. Am I missing something here? (JohanH)

Yes, I think you are missing something. As should have become obvious by the heated discussions after the release of prices for the U.S. market, publishing prices is a delicate step. It is not as simple as (cost + margin + shipping) * currency + customs + VAT.

Why do you think the base price for the Model S "happens" to be just below $50k after(!) tax rebate? Pricing is at least as much about psychology and politics, as it is about cost and margin. I am convinced that Tesla will analyze each market separately, take into account the specific taxes and rebates, look at competitors in the EV as well as in the ICE/Hybrid segment, and then determine the price for the market, which will end up just below some magic barrier. Similarly I think it is likely that they will come up with slightly different option packages for different markets, e.g., making heated seats standard for the northern countries, etc.

There is even more to it: Once Tesla has published their options & pricing, they will be busy to justify it (again, look at the reaction after pricing for the U.S. market was published). Currently, they need their focus elsewhere. Also, at that point they have committed to a certain pricing which will be extremely hard to change later, if need be. And finally, they will want to evaluate reactions to the U.S. pricing and maybe use a lesson from that to further improve their pricing in other markets.

All in all, procrastinating the commitment to pricing as long as possible, and separately for each market, makes a lot of sense from Tesla's point of view and actually may also be to our advantage as customers as well.

VB;
Yeah, the old rule of '5 and 9': All prices should end in a 5 or 9, because buyers mentally truncate. I.e., $49,999.99 looks much cheaper than $50,000.

LOL

Volker: ofcourse you are right. And with that aspect in mind I'm scared they'll price it high here since we're used to costly cars and have high incomes. However, it would be a real turn-off for me if I can calculate from the final pricing in my country that, for example, Tesla makes 10, 20 or even 40% more gross margin on my purschase as compared to selling the same car to a US customer...

JohanH, well now you know how we feel about the fact that German premium makes are usually sold for less in foreign countries, particularly in the U.S., than what we Germans have to pay for "our own" cars. Those are the occasions where I think I'd be happier if I didn't know too much...

As you well know Volker, it's merely market economics. Back in the 60's and 70's Americans in general had a very strong attraction to U.S. mfr. cars for stupid patriotic reasons. That didn't go away until Detroit screwed us over with crappy cars too many times. So now we shop for the best car world-wide. (Generally speaking of course.)

I bet Germans still have that buy local mentality and as you said, the German car makers can take advantage of that and sell cars at a better margin locally than they can to foreign customers.

@mycroft - I disagree with 'stupid'. Perhaps 'overly' is a better fit.

Mycroft, exactly my thoughts (although, obviously, I'd prefer the wording suggested by brianman).

To be even more precise: The "buy local mentality" in Germany is not driven by patriotism as it is/was in the US. It is driven by the conception that German cars are the best cars world-wide. (Speaking for the fictional "average" German here.) This conception is certainly helped by the fact that those manufacturers are local, but it cannot be applied to other industrial sectors in the same fashion. The relationship between man and cars has always been irrational and emotional, but it is my impression that Germans are a class of their own in this regard. This impression is actually supported by hard facts, on average Germans spend a greater fraction of their household income on cars than other nations (but much less on homes or food).

Now, Volker. That delusion about superior German auto quality is just patriotism in another guise!

;D

Brian H, that's kinda true, but cars are the odd man out here, as Germans don't care about the origin of a brand when buying most other stuff, e.g., consumer electronics, furniture or garment (some actually prefer U.S. brands in the latter case).

And besides, I looked up "delusion", and the term just plain does not fit here. German auto quality is superior for a fact. :-)

Excerpt:
http://www.lemonaidcars.com/forecasts.html

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GM Canada is on the run.

It will soon follow Ford’s lead and drop its 6-year/100,000 km secret warranty covering engine intake manifold gasket failures on 1996-2003 model vehicles (its front-drive minivans are the worst offenders). Look for an announcement that, henceforth, all owners will receive retroactive compensation up to 7 years/160,000 km.
Owners wanting a repair refund now are urged to make a formal claim, using Lemon-Aid’s Used Car and Minivan Guide (sample complaint letters and jurisprudence).
Also check out http://www.rosnerandlaw.com/PDF/hanson2.pdf for tips on framing your legal argument to get a speedy settlement, specifically in Ford and GM intake manifold cases.

2006 Flops and Firings

This year, Detroit’s Feeble Three will continue their sales decline and loss of market share.
• GM will sell GMAC, and its interest in Isuzu, Saab, Subaru. and Saab, while Ford jettisons Jaguar, DaimlerChrysler’s Jeep Commander is also living on borrowed time.
• GM CEO Rick Wagoner is a “dead man walking,” who will likely be replaced this year by Mark Hogan, president of the auto supplier Magna, or Carlos Ghosn, the head of Nissan and Renault. Not only has the automaker lost billions on his watch, but the company has to ‘restate’ its financial reports to comply with SEC regulations. Presently, General Motors is the subject of at least six federal accounting investigations. Insiders say the revised reports will show the company’s accountants ‘forgot’ to list an additional $2 billion in losses
....
10 Biggest Auto Myths

1. You get what you pay for. No, cheaper cars are often better than luxury lemons.

2. Mercedes makes the best cars. No longer; even German drivers say they prefer Toyota and Lexus.
...
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-category/c...
E.g.; VW top German car, tied for 6th place with 4 others.

Etc.

German cars were excellent in the olden days. Not so much any more.
>:P

Oops, Most of the above is irrelevant; here's the short version:
-------

...
10 Biggest Auto Myths

1. You get what you pay for. No, cheaper cars are often better than luxury lemons.

2. Mercedes makes the best cars. No longer; even German drivers say they prefer Toyota and Lexus.
...

Volvo recently won J.D Powers 2011 Germany Vehicle Ownership Satisfaction Study, with Mercedes Benz in second place and Mazda coming in third... So I guess the Swedes are the best car makers? :)

Brian H, you know those smileys? Methinks you use them yourself, "occasionally". You know, like, colon minus closing parenthesis?

Seriously, when you look at German streets, there is a lot of Toyotas, but Lexus is still an exotic here, and the vast majority by a very wide margin is VW, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, then Opel and Ford. Granted, many of those Audi, BMW, Mercedes are company cars, so when you strictly look at private car purchases, the image may be different. I don't know.

As for myself, I have a reservation for a Tesla pending, as you know.

Yes, I know. ;) I was just tickling your slightly subsurface ethnocentric patriotism. I know that's kind of un-PC in Germany, but as far as I'm concerned it's fair ball; you have to like your country and culture to make them work properly!!

the vast majority by a very wide margin is VW, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, then Opel and Ford

That reminds me going interrailing in Germany. VW everywhere until I found myself in some small town with almost exclusively Audi everywhere. Apparently there were an Audi factory there. It felt odd to come in a town and find so many Audis everywhere, it felt like walking thru an car commercial.

I know that's kind of un-PC in Germany, but as far as I'm concerned it's fair ball; you have to like your country and culture to make them work properly!! (Brian H)

I agree 100%, and that's probably been one of Germany's core problems in recent decades. It likely sounds silly to bystanders, but the soccer world cup in Germany did a lot to overcome this "German national schism". It is suddenly PC again to waive a German flag in public! This was inconceivable before.

I thought that waiving waving the flag was PC, while waving it was waiving your PC-ness.
I'm so konfoozed ...

;)

Ooops, yeah. First time actually appreciate your manic nitpickyness. :-)

BTW, I think that Mark in the other thread might actually be one of the few persons (besides yourself) who know what an oxymoron is, and that he used the term purposefully the way he did. I liked it, at least.


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