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Pricing on Model X?

For the Model S, those that have a reservation prior to year-end will not be subject to the price increase that takes effect on Jan 1. Is there any similar advantage to making a Model X reservation before year-end? Or is the only advantage, at this point, that you get a spot earlier in line?

VikingNoah

Israel has discovered huge oil deposits in the last 3 years. In these deposits alone is enough oil to last 3,000 years. Look it up on Google.

Because of these facts, I believe oil prices will stay around the same, or probably drop. Also, as electric vehicles become more popular, gas engines and fuel will drop in price in order to encourage buyers. Watch and see.

Also consider what the cost of a new battery pack will be every 5 years or so.....not cheap and likely not coming down in price. Your power company is likely to increase their billing rate per KW too. So both vehicles can be effected by increases in costs.

Timo

How is the model x vehicle better in every single way except price?

You ain't making it so just by making the statement. You will have to prove it with facts.

Brian H

How many orders and deposits do you think they would get if they had a vehicle priced for the working man at say 16,000 to 20,000?

They would have more money than Bill Gates in no time flat, so your reasoning is flawed.

Get it?

@SamFisher

You realize that they CANNOT offer a car for that price yet unless they plan on losing money on every sale and going out of business correct?

Yes, they would get a crapload of reservations, but they still need to MAKE money in order to stay in business.

<
SamFisher | MARCH 3, 2013 NEW
I hear that the Model X will cost $100,000.00 Canadian. How can anyone justify this kind of expenditure just to avoid a gasoline engine?

For example:

Lets look at a popular cross-over vehicle like the Dodge Journey RT with 283 HP V6 getting a conservative 20 miles per gallon (combined hwy/city).

The Dodge Journey R/T is a popular North American built cross over vehicle that costs under $33,000.00 Canadian, while the Tesla costs $100,000.00....a difference of $67,000.00.

Using 600 US gallons of gasoline, or approximately 2400 liters(I'm rounding off) you will get 12,000 miles at a cost of approximately $3,120.0 Canadian.

At $3,120.00 a year It would take more than 20 years to spend the 67,000 extra cost for the Tesla X.

The logic and the math don't add up. There needs to be some economic benefit to driving an EV.

I don't see any economic advantage in buying an Electric Tesla X over a cheaper fuel efficient gas powered cross-cross over such as the Dodge Journey.

The moral of this post is: get your prices down to 40,000.00 to 50,000.00, otherwise it's a no brainer to get a gas powered vehicle of similar size and style.>

Did you factor in the cost of Cancer and rebuilding cities??

@SamFisher

People buy the Tesla Model X or S over other cars because they can afford it and that's it.

In fact, most people buying premium car brands do so because they can afford it. If we really wanted to save money, we'd be all driving Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas.

However, I haven't been through multiple years of college and work so hard to drive those cars. I work hard so that I can play hard and get the things I want.

My guess is that most people buying a Tesla thinks the same way. They simply "want" that car and it just happens they can afford it. I could be buying a Q7 or X5 M or other premium SUVs....but I won't get the same satisfaction feeling of getting the Model X. You only live once, so I drank the kool-aid and let's rock and roll!

SamFisher,
Tesla is planning to sell more affordable electric vehicles. The problem is that the public thinks of electric vehicles as glorified golf carts that aren't ready to compete on an equal playing field with your Dodge. And at the price of your Dodge they're not.

Perhaps you're unaware of "the plan"...

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/secret-tesla-motors-master-plan-just-bet...

Bottom line is that the internal combustion engine automobile has been in develpment for a hundred years and the economies of scale are such that almost everyone can afford to buy a new one. Was that the case when Henry Ford first started selling the Model T?

As you can see with the current crop of "affordable" electric cars, they can't and don't compete with ICE cars because the range is viewed by most as only being suitable for in the city driving. That's because the technology isn't ready to be affordable. I've read that battery costs need to come down about 8% make the car you want Tesla to sell economically feasable.

SamFisher, SolarWind,

Nissan is in the business of selling affordable EV's and look where that is going. I am convinced that the future is good for the LEAF and other affordable EV's, but sales are not exactly flying. Actually Tesla is selling more high priced Model S's than Nissan is selling LEAFs. What can you learn from that?

We have in a capitalist economy, and you have to have a business plan so that your company survives. Telling Tesla to lower their prices is not a business plan.

Who thought that 5kg+ 'portable' telephones one day would become a gadget for the masses? Cell phones started with high prices too, only for wealthy people that wanted others to look at them in envy. Thank those big egos for buying these overpriced bricks back then, because without them the cell phone would have died a premature death.

This 'ego stroke factor' is now put to good use again to help the development of affordable EV's, and some years from now you can thank them again for funding your affordable EV.

Accept that the technology simply isn't there yet, and that Tesla can do very little to change that. They have to accept the state of technology as it is today and take it from there with a business plan that is based on realism with a small dose of idealism instead of the other way around.

SamFisher, Model X has more space, is more durable, has better TC, is faster, is safer, looks better, has better driving experience etc.

In short, it is better car.

It is turning out, when push comes to shove, that a much wider slice of the public can afford the MS than anyone, probably including Elon, ever imagined. My WAG is that about 25-30% of those buying it never contemplated buying a car in this price range before, and about half of those are squeezing their budgets hard to handle it, in ways they would never dream of doing for ICE cars. And of those who can afford it, it requires only brief exposure to make the "sale".

The market potential for the MS is far greater than the SFs and JPs of this world imagine.

As for pricing questions (which have been repeated ad nausiam), I will simply repeat the answer:
Tesla
Secret
Master
Plan

Have a nice day.

Some other comments @SamFisher...

"Another thing I did not factor in (and neither did the people who disagree with me) is that during 10 years of ownership you will be required to replace your battery pack at least once at a cost of 10,000.00 to 20,000.00.

I have an 11 year old gas guzzling SUV with 70 thousand miles on it and I just changed the battery and spark plugs last year at a cost of under $300. It runs like the day I purchased it. Oh, and Two oil changes a year is a hundred bucks. I'm laughing all the way to the bank."

Required to replace the battery? No, not by a long shot. I'll wager these packs last 20 years with less than 20% degradation. Tesla has taken the management of the battery cells for longevity quite seriously.

I'll wager again that most owners will have changed them out in 10 years by choice though because new technology will have doubled the range and halved the charge times.

You need to fire up your calculator again SamFisher and do the math on how much you spent on gas in those 11 years for that SUV. I'm going to guess it would have paid for the cost of a new battery. How's the transmission in that 11 year old SUV? Probably will have needed some service in that time too (or very soon anyway).

As for my comments about why people are buying Model S's, I said the same thing you did in a lot less words. I agree people aren't buying them because it makes financial sense (didn't I say as much?). Automobiles are a luxury in this world. NOBODY needs one, not even a $15,000 one (or a $100,00.00 whatever number that is supposed to be ;-) ). You're right that people are buying them because they want to look cool, but they're also buying them because they want to be a part of something new, the gasolineless future of automotive transportation. It's about being an early adopter of a new, promising technology. When Tesla (or any other manufacturer) is selling a $20,000 sedan or small SUV that runs on batteries and you buy one, then think back to these people who were willing to spend their hard earned money to make it feasible for you to afford a less expensive version and thank them.

Cheers!

Comptroller to Sales Manager: "What were you thinking with that pricing? We're losing money on every sale!"
Sales Manager: "We intended to make it up on volume."

@Solarwind asked me: "Did you factor in the cost of Cancer and rebuilding cities??"

Why? Are you telling me that the fuel efficiency standards and requirements that have been in effect (and increased) since the mid seventies has done nothing? Are you blaming internal combustion engines for cancer and causing cities to need rebuilding?

Are you aware that the average volcanic eruption spews more carbon and poison gas into the atmosphere in a few hours than all the internal combustion engines ever made? Seriously man, gas engines don't hold a candle to what natural events do. Even naturally caused forest fires (lightning strikes)cause more carbon each year than engines do.....and that carbon is needed for plants to live and make oxygen. So your point is? And don't tell me there are no environment concerns, or health concerns, with the battery packs, or electromagnetic energy emissions.

Bottom line: I want an EV and the model x would be one heck of a ride into the future.....and it would be more environmentally friendly, but the cost is too high for me to justify it right now.

@Timo: you said, "Model X has more space, is more durable, has better TC, is faster, is safer, looks better, has better driving experience etc.

In short, it is better car." unquote.

More space? How much more space does it have than a Journey? $70,000.00 worth of more space?

How is it more durable? Does it have some kind of super suspension never before available? Is the frame and body panels made out of titanium?

What is TC?

Faster doesn't mean better, besides, with 285 hp the Journey does 0 to 60 mph in 5 to 6 seconds....how much faster do you need.

Driving experience is subjective, so your response still lacks facts.

@goneskiian: Even if the battery technology used today gives 20 yrs of service and I don't factor it into the cost.....so what? My first cost analysis still stands and it doesn't effect my point.

@goneskiian:

Take two identical vehicles. One with a gas powered drive train and the other with an electric drive train and battery pack.

Now tell me why the EV should cost more than the gas model when a gas engine is WAY more expensive than an electric motor. In addition: the EV does not need a fuel tank, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, EFI, gas filler tube, filler valve, fuel filtration, stainless steel exhaust system, muffler, catalytic converter, chrome tail pipe, EGR pollution control, etc.

Seriously guys, A Canadian kid took an older Chevy S10 and converted it to an electric vehicle for under $5,000.00....what does that tell you? It tells me that if you purchased a new vehicle without a gas engine and all the parts needed to run that gas engine, it would be a huge savings, and the conversion to EV would be less than $5,000.00. Now add in the cost of improving the battery system and guess what? There is no reason two identical vehicles could not be priced similarly(one being gas, the other being EV).

NEVER say it can't be done if a kid in Canada can do it.

Would you like to know the range on that S10 conversion Sam? It's a lot lower than you think it is.

I think we have another nnt here.

TC = Traction Control.
Whole lotta apples and grapes and peanuts, there.

"Seriously guys, A Canadian kid took an older Chevy S10 and converted it to an electric vehicle for under $5,000.00....what does that tell you?"

Seriously, it tells me that the S10 would have a dozen 6v lead acid batteries what would take overnight to recharge just to have 30 miles of range in good weather without using any heater. and the lead acid battery may need replacement in every couple of years. Of course there is no way you can build a AC system for under $5k, it will be DC system with no regenerative brake system.

will do 0 to 60 in probably... never. max speed will come in at about 50 mph.

Seriously... $5000 home made EV is... nothing more than a science project. Good for that kid. This is not same as state of art system costing millions of dollars to develope. Have you lookup how much it cost to buy just a bare lithium ion battery cell? and add a thermal management system and control system so it lasts 100K miles and provide consistant performance regardless of weather and safety.

@ SamFisher
I think Elon and Tesla are doing what has to be in order to make a viable company. You remember the cellphone evolution, remember Apple computer . In order for new innovation companies to make it and build the necessary infrastructure they have to depend on vain, early adopters to help pay the cost. The people that buy Viper's and boats, and will pay for quality and innovation.

Regarding your volcano statement and global warm, you swallowed the hook, line and sinker. (sorry couldn't resist) Way to much Fox New. You do not need to be a scientist or genius to figure that one out, just common sense. Volcanos were here before man and the world was in balance. If it took one Billion years to store carbon that got put back in the atmosphere in 100 years, that can't be good. If the population of earth was in balance at one Billion then 16 Billion due to the exploitation of oil is probably not a plus. If one pint of oil burned in your garage will kill you then 85 million barrels a day in the atmospher can't be good. If the ice is melting then the earth is warming. If oil is nonrenewable then drilling more, more expensive holes will not reduce the price. If you have foreign bank accounts, it is not to create jobs, it is to dodge taxes.

Solarwind;
The CO2 (not "carbon", dum-dum) was up over 7000 ppm as a result of volcanoes at one point. The plants and phytoplankton had a long piggy field day, and gradually converted it into chalk, limestone, and oil, leaving barely enough to live on. We have barely begun to restore a bit of what they need and love. They're egging us on, eagerly hoping to get some back into circulation.

Brian, Brian, Brian, CO2 is a byproduct of burning carbon, (fossil fuel) CO2 is only part of the problem with burning fossil fuel. The naysayers don't mention the earth's oxygen level has dropped .2% in the last 20 years, doesn't sound like much but when it gets into the 19's everybody will be packing oxygen. You say the plants need CO2 that is true but the CO2 is not readily available to the plants and we are applying more and more fertilizer (oil product) to keep our yields up. (I'm a retired farmer) In our area we are loosing thousands of acres of forest to pine beetle, never there before. You cannot depend on Faux News or adds on the internet. You must look around see what is happening and THINK FOR YOUR SELF!!
It is said on this forum that there is 3000 years of oil in the middle east. Come On, the only way that is possible is if we stopped using oil tomorrow and that's not going to happen.
Oil has made it possible for people to have a high standard of living. The higher the standard of living the more those people are willing to lie and spend money to keep it that way. Fossil fuel has been borrowing from the environment sense it was put to use. If we stopped using oil tomorrow it would be 25 years (estimate) before we saw a deacceleration in the climate change. Payment on this debt is coming due and the National debt won't even be a pimple on you butt compared to this one. The high rollers and naysayers are willing to let the great grand kids pick up the tab, so they can keep rolling in the $$$$$. If the environment debt was being serviced the oil companies would be the poorest in the world not the richest.
Elon is my hero! He is a very smart man trying to do something positive for posterity and the world. He even inspired the car I now drive the Chevy Volt. Bob Lutz of GM looked at what Elon was doing and said we can't let a little startup Co. like that get ahead of us. I will be supporting Tesla any way I can including buying when I can.
As far as the name calling; Whatever turns your screw!

Solarwind, You're picking the wrong person to argue with on human caused (CO2) global warming. You have been warned. ;-)

Groan. There is only about 4% of 1% of the atmosphere which is CO2. About 20% is oxygen. You could re-double the CO2 level about 6X and that would drop the oxygen level by 2% (assuming you mean 2% of the total atmosphere, and not 2% of 20%).

Your misunderstandings and lack of numeracy skills are so deep it is pointless to discuss the issue. End.

I thought I would be reading about pricing... But this is great, because, now that's what I call entertainment!

@ gonesklian

Thanks for the warning, I have learned common sense is not common. I'm out :-)

This thread is very interesting ... and as most have pointed out, fairly absurd.

In my opinion, Tesla is the first company with the RIGHT business models on EV's, which seems to be evidenced by their success so far.

The Model S or X are not the Leaf, Prius or Volt, and it's crazy to compare them to standard counterparts. The technology is superior, the overall features are superior ... it really is a better car. And that's the whole model ... build a care nice enough to command a higher price, so that the economics work for Tesla, and allow for future production at lower price points for average consumers.

That said, the economics are not bad, and for what you get, I think priced competitively.

For me ... I wasn't following EV's at all (my wife does have a hybrid), but I was always more on the SamFisher side of things ... economics didn't make sense to me. Funny, but the NYTimes article originally is how I started looking more at Tesla ...

So the CO2 emissions, the global warming stuff ... none of that matters that much to me (mostly because I believe man has a much smaller impact than we think we do ... we always have a big ego thinking that we cause so much). But ... I'm definitely a techie ... and I love the technology of EV's, fuel cells, and other no/low pollution options. And politically, I'd love to reduce our dependence on oil.

What I love about Tesla, is it is really leading edge ... it's found the right place in the market, and it really is driving change. And the cars are so freaking awesome! I can't wait to own a Model X! I commend Tesla on breaking through the barriers that it seems every other EV manufacturer has gotten caught up in (trying to satisfy the SamFisher customer first) and failing miserably. Tesla is the first real evidence in my mind, that EV will make it and now is the time.

+1 mthomtech

I hadn't paid much attention to Tesla until the Motortrend COTY award. At least the S anyway.

Sure I'd heard of the Roadster and thought "Wow! That's cool!" But it was out of my price range at the time and still is out of my functionality range (i.e. not enough space to haul all the other toys I like to use like bikes and skis and whatnot). I am a bit of a car guy though so I always notice them (when not mistaken for a Lotus or vis versa) ;-).

With the COTY award though I really took notice and with the X, and then the Superchargers. That's when I realized "Hey this EV thing could really work for me!"

Now I'm really excited to get one. My wife is going to take some more convincing though. She's much more frugal and an S or X would be a bit more than double what we've previously spent on a car (I'd want it loaded of course! ;-)). She does want our next vehicle to be something larger, though, I'm not totally sure why as we don't have children. The S would be more than large enough in my opinion. Although the all wheel drive, while not necessary, would be nice to have the couple times a year it snows here in Seattle or we travel to the snow.

Anyway, I agree that Tesla's pricing strategy is a great way for them to get the EV off the ground. I'm hoping they make it work long enough for us to get one!

Cheers!

gone skiin';
Interesting, you're the first I've heard explicitly say the MT COTY award piqued their interest enough to investigate. Anyone else?


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