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Pricing on Model X?

For the Model S, those that have a reservation prior to year-end will not be subject to the price increase that takes effect on Jan 1. Is there any similar advantage to making a Model X reservation before year-end? Or is the only advantage, at this point, that you get a spot earlier in line?

I agree with both sides, because though Tesla X pricing doesn't make economic sense, it's only because petroleum gas is greatly under-priced.

goneskiian
I know that global impact of CO2 emissions is negligible on geologic scale, however when we look to all known planets, suitable atmospheres for supporting our life forms are extremely rare. Earth itself has supported human life for a relatively short time.

Climactic scientific research has developed only several human generations.

Let's say we make a fabulous flea market find; buying a a personally useful and highly attractive yet bargain priced antique. It may be a worthless knockoff, or worth a fortune, but wouldn't you treat it with care, even before having it appraised?

Common and economic sense says don't spew poison into your breathing supply. Without studying the process by which CO2 dissipates, interacts, and is consumed, I think it unwise to assume it costs what it takes to pump petroleum out of the ground and then distribute it.

For me, it's as simple as the horrific odor of exhaust. The cost of disgust, shame and guilt at spewing that nastiness while traveling long distances with my large family, may be eliminated by driving the only vehicle that can do so emission-free. Tesla X!

Cle;
your thinking isn't bad, but will improve when you distinguish "poison" from CO2. Did you know...in higher CO2 concentrations, plants' leaves need fewer stomata to take in all they need? This then means they lose and take in less water -- so not only do they become more productive (grow bigger and faster), their water use is far more efficient, and they become drought-tolerant.

Ultimately, everything you eat was built up out of CO2 and water. It's good stuff. Far, far from being a poison.

@Sam F.
No oil/filter changes, no transmission flushes, no tune-ups, no exhaust system maintenance, no radiator flushes, no gasoline.

So, add this to your mathematical calculations and factor in that we won't be killing as many people or animals to get oil and could me making the fresh air and water last a little longer.

And, you can park your Model S in your living room, just like Batman.

...could "be" making...

CleOlivia and alcassfast - You both make great points. Thanks for contributing.

I wonder if SamFisher will return to enlighten us with his brilliant math skills and comprehensive understanding of Tesla's business plan some more. Probably too busy installing an 80 mile battery and electric motor in a Chevy S10.

Brian H - I'm sure there are others. Probably quite a few that are already (or soon to be) driving their S's!

@CleOlivia
You are correct, it is always better to keep what you know works then count on a pie in the sky. Common sense makes sense.

Just watched science channel show about dinosaurs. On there they showed a test done by the japan scientists on plants in our atmosphere and plants in higher CO2 atmosphere. The plants grew bigger but were all yellow and brown, had less then half the nutrition of the plants grown in our atmosphere, there was no mention of water intake reduction. CO2 is a big blanket and will suffocate our planet.

I hear things all the time like, "I don't think we (people) make as big of a impact on earth as we think we do." What does that mean? I can't think of one thing on earth we don't impact, most of it negative.
If doing the correct is obvious, why do the opposite? Money against your grand kids life.

A couple of old sayings come to mind. Garbage in garbage out. Figures don't lie but liars figure.

As a person that bikes forth and back to work every day, I look forward to a future where the ICE cars are replaced by hybrids and EV’s. The EV technology should in fact be so heavily subsidized in the years to come, that all of today’s obstacles with the technology is minimized (battery weight, charging etc.), so that the price of the car is on equal terms to an ICE car.

Unfortunately, there are only a few countries in the world where a heavy subsidy is possible (Norway, Denmark).

There's no doubt about it, the Model X is a very cool car and has something for all sides, whether you are really that concerned about the CO2 or not.

Cle - I agree with the general pollution control. I don't buy that we'll have as much impact on climate as many do ... you are right about just the general avoidance of all the other smog and pollution. Definitely a worthwhile pursuit.

Speaking of pollution - what about noise pollution! One of my favorite things about the hybrid is how quiet it is in EV mode.

goneskiian - it's going to take me awhile to convince the wife too ... no deposit for me yet ... but I'll keep trying :)

I think a lot of people will buy the Tesla brand for the absolute cool factor. Have you seen the vehicle? It is awesome. The fact that it is all electric just makes it so much better.

I have absolutely no concern about the Co2 levels in the atmosphere, the oceans will take care of that...climate change has been going on for as long as the earth has existed...IMHO: puny little humans cannot effect it in any appreciable degree...

But, that being said, I love the idea of an AWD vehicle that can go over 50 miles on a charge. Where I live I MUST have AWD minimum, true 4X4 would be better. Other wise I can go nowhere in the winter. I already have a Polaris EV, and love not having to worry about gas. Just plug it back in and it is ready to go next day.

I presently have an Audi A6 Quattro, and it appears that the Tesla X will be about that size. Perfect for me. We live 20 miles from a small town, and 40 miles from a place big enough that it has a Wal-Mart or Home Depot, so 100+ mile range is imperative. We live 250 miles from our children, so that is even better. The number of miles we drive is generally limited except our weekly trips to town, and occasional trips to visit the kids and to go to church with our old congregation where the kids still live.

So, how to justify the price? you do not look at the total cost of the vehicle minus the cost of operation. You look at the investment cost of ownership, plus depreciation, plus the battery cost (I plan on this being my last car purchase...I'm retired) less the cost of the savings in gas or Diesel. (if Audi would only bring the A8 over with the 4.3L diesel... oh my)

This is assuming the fit and finish will be in the same class as the Audi A8...

All purchases are made with funds that Could be earning; or through Debt, that has a direct cost. If your investments earn you 5% on average, your $80,000(est)investment will cost you $4000 a year in earnings not received, or in something else you can no longer use those funds for. If your investments earn 10%, then that opportunity cost would be $8,000 a year. If you have to borrow the funds, the cost of the debt is the opportunity cost of the funds used to pay that debt and interest.... all, plus depreciation.

The savings will be with the difference between the cost of the batteries verse the cost of the fuel that was not consumed. It would appear, if you are a high mileage driver your savings would be much better than if you are a low mileage driver like I am these days. Back when I was driving 50k miles a year or more, the Tesla would have made me money.

Compare those numbers to the same analysis of an acceptable alternative, then you will see what the cost of the Tesla will actually be.

It's just hard to estimate the value of living guilt-free. Driving EVs you no long feel guilty about getting poor kids from the Midwest killed while trying to kill the poor bastards in the Mideast; or feel guilty about feeding the corporation beasts who are corrupting the American politics and democracy; or feel guilty about contributing to warming up an already over-heated planet, which in turn has been driving countless species to extinction, has caused ever more catastrophic natural disasters, about to release huge amount of methane from sea bed and perma frostfrost, and will raise up sea level to wipe out island nations and coastal cities.

With the current EV adoption rate, these things can't be stopped. But at least we no longer contribute to the problems. Years later, when confronted by your grandchildren or ready for the Judgment Day, at least you can say I tried and did my part.

So give me your number. How much value that could count for?

$0. They're all ideological delusions.

To Brian H:
Obviously you are one of those people who never went to school. If you ever did, you should know that when you have the word "all" in a statement, that statement is most probably wrong. This is one of the tricks to deal with multiple selection questions on tests.
I was amazed by your spelling though. Spelling check must be working well.

When you give out a short statement like that, it's lazy people's way of saying: "I don't agree with you. But I don't know why."

Trust me. He does know why. Go read the "Man made. We're screwed thread" if you want to see a full explanation.

2 threads here make no sense at all--it is very simple to me:

a. Why would someone spend so much on a Tesla X when they could buy a Dodge Journey for so much less?

Well, why do people buy ANY vehicle for more than the Journey if it has comparable size, work caoability, etc.? Not everyone buys vehicles -or anything else for that matetr- for the same reasons as you do. Is it OK for someone to have other car-buying criteria than you? Why would someone buy a house overlooking the beach when it costs so much? Why would I buy fresh salmon when there is cheaper food with good nutritional value? If someone has 100k to spend on a car, they can choose between any number of vehicles and they may choose a Tesla. Good for them, they like it better. So what? If the Tesla is not yet for you based on how you choose your vehicles, buy something else. But it is a self-centered non-sequitor to impose your car-selection criteria onto everyone else.

b. Are gas engines more harmful than the Tesla? Well, you can do all the calculations you want to about car emissions and cow farts, but there is no way you will ever, ever take into account all elements at work in maintaining the Earth's ability to sustain life as it has for our known history. We know what we know and we don't know what we don't. Ice caps are melting, all heck has broken loose in other ways, and people will not all agree on the causes. You have your science and I have mine, and they become more like defending religions than honest dialog. I am pretty sure of this: have a picnick and fire up a Journey and a Tesla so the exhaust blows toward the gathering. Then give people there the option to have one car leave and one stay. Better yet, park the Tesla or the Journey in a garage, close all the doors, turn on the car and sit there for a few hours. Then the Tesla owners and the Journey owners can meet for a beer and discuss the experience.

Well said westmich.

+1 Very well said Westmich!

Re: "puny little humans cannot effect it in any appreciable degree..."

If you don't think humans can affect the environment in any appreciable way, try looking up information on the Aral Sea.

Re: "everything you eat was built up out of CO2 and water. It's good stuff. Far, far from being a poison."

As with most things, it's only okay in moderation. If you look up information on health concerns for CO2 gas concentrations, you will find that high levels of CO2 is hazardous for humans regardless of O2 levels. Negative side effects begin around 10K ppm with death possible around 100K ppm. Of course, global warming isn't about direct health affects, but overall environmental affects. At what point does excess CO2 become detrimental. Or perhaps more poignant, at what point does the effects of excess CO2 become more problematic than the challenges of trying to control it's levels? The point being, it's not an argument about whether or not too much CO2 is bad; it's an argument about how much is too much. While 400 ppm is a long ways from 100K ppm, clearly there is a tipping point somewhere, because at 100K ppm we would all go unconcious and die.

Re: "My WAG is that about 25-30% of those buying it never contemplated buying a car in this price range before, and about half of those are squeezing their budgets hard to handle it, in ways they would never dream of doing for ICE cars."

Back closer to on topic, I believe this little nugget from Brian H is right on the money. It describes my wife and I perfectly. We have never contemplated buying a car in this price range before (it's about 2x the cost of what we have ever considered before), but we are now, and we are squeezing our budget for it.

Except the ice caps are not melting. Antarctica is icier than ever, and current northern sea ice is higher than the last 6 years. Meanwhile, spoiled brats everywhere are dissing the source of their own easy lifestyles.

Three things:

Somebody REALLY loves his Dodge Journey R/T. I wonder how that would change if the exhaust came out the center of his steering wheel.

My Model X will cost slightly more than all the cars I have ever owned COMBINED. Looking forward to it.

If gasoline was FREE, I would buy a Tesla.

Okay, Antarctica is icier than ever, but its "expansion" is not proportional to the Arctic's decrease. The fact that the Arctic is losing its ice while Antarctica is gaining ice is due to the fact that an increase in temperatures affects the northern hemisphere much more than the same increase does to the southern hemisphere as high(er) temperatures are normal down there.

Quite a few people have asked how I could spend as much on a car as my Model X will likely cost. My reply is that if I combine the cost of my current vehicle plus gas, and repairs, the cost of the Model X is not much more (Than what I have spent on my F150 FX4) Maintenance is a little more, but the I currently spend about the same per month on fuel as I would be spending on annual service.

@leonard

Are you saying you spend $600/month on fuel in the F150 or $50?

Sea ice is floating, by definition, and has no effect on sea level.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/sea-ice-page/

Who ever mentioned sea levels?

To SamFisher (March 10, 2013)...I'm trading in my Honda Fit for a Tesla Model S. By my calculations, with very conservative estimates, the total cost of ownership for my new Model S will be less than that of the alternative of continuing to make car payments on my 2010 Fit and exchanging it for another ICE car after the cost of repairs gets too high.

Any way I slice and dice the numbers (with the exception of assuming that electricity prices will increase while the cost of gasoline at the pump will decrease over time), my soon-to-be new Model S comes out ahead, financially speaking, compared to any other reasonable alternative (including keeping my little Honda Fit).

remyco;
Sounds interesting. Have you looked at and commented at teslarumors.com/teslanomics? Similar conclusions. "Can you afford NOT to buy a Tesla?"

Hey SamFisher,

Here are some thoughts. When figuring ROI on an electric vehicle it's all about the variables. The key one being how much do you drive a year. You used 12K. I personally drive 40K. Your equation doesn't work - mine does.

The days when the price of gas goes down substantially are over. Yes yes yes, new resources are being discovered but they are always more expensive to recover and with emerging countries like China, demand will outstrip any growth in supply.

I think the issue of battery replacement is silly. First of all, when you go to buy a Suburban nobody says "well ya know, in ten years you're gonna have at replace that transmission and its gonna cost ya 4-6 grand." Batteries will last that long and the only thing we know for sure is that they will cost far less to replace in ten years than they would today.

The primary keys to electric vehicles taking off are 1. Driving down the initial cost. 2. Having the refueling infrastructure in place. 3. Range 4. It needs to work in larger vehicles - SUV's.

Great strides are being made in all of these areas and big oil is and will continue to fight progress every step of the way.

BTW, it should be mentioned that Consumer Reports reviewed the S model and found it to be the best vehicle they've ever reviewed! EVER! In any category!!

I love it that you are all still responding to Mr. SamFisher. Hopefully he's still lurking.


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