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0-60 time: 60 vs 85

A Tesla rep told me that they list very conservative 0-60 times so insurance companies don't jack up the prices too much. He claims that the 0-60 time on the 85 and 60 models is basically identical and hovers around 5.1 seconds in good conditions. Of course the website tells a different story. But can anyone corroborate this story? Is there basically no difference in how the two models accelerate and perform except for range?

I have read a quote somewhere that the 85 is faster than the 60 because the bigger battery can deliver more current to the motor--sorry, don't have a source handy so can't vouch for the accuracy of my memory.

O

that's correct although 60 and 85 use the exact same inverter and electric motor, but since the 85 model are able to deliver more current so it's about .5 second in 0-60

sorry I mean 0.5 second FASTER in 0-60 time

This does not come from Tesla, but dragtimes measured a 60 vs P85 time for 0-60mph and are faster than the figures on the Tesla website. Notice that for each car, the driver started with both the brake & accelerator pressed (note the warning bell and message). This certainly reduces the time to fully depress the accelerator pedal; which could account for the faster recorded times. They did not measure a standard 85.

http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/tesla-model-s-60-kwh-vs-tesla-model-s-85-k...

According to DargTimes Video:

Performance 85kWh 3.9 seconds (4.2 per Tesla spec)
60kWh 5.1 seconds (5.9 per Tesla spec)

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/17/tesla-model-s-60-kwh-vs-tesla-model-...

I haven't seen any official numbers (from a car review magazine) that show the S85 is any faster than the S60.

Sure the 85KW battery can deliver more current, but it also weighs more.

Per the Tesla website, the S85 is a hair faster than the S60 (5.9 vs 5.4 sec for 0-60 and 14.2 vs 13.7 sec for the 1/4 mi) probably as a result of having 60 more horses and another 8 ft-lbs of torque.

O

Actually, the battery in the 60 and 85 is identical and weighs the same. The 60 has dead cells. They did this to avoid crash testing two different models. I wonder if anyone has done real-world comparisons between the two models. According to the rep, there is no difference in the 0-60 times.

@icecold:

Logically, I don't see how the 2 cars with the same weight, with more dead cells vs more good cells respond the same way.

Especially, when the spec are different, more horse power, more torque, more RPM:

Peak Motor 302 hp (225 kW) VS 362 hp (270 kW)
5,000-8,000 rpm VS 6,000-9,500 rpm

Peak Motor Torque 317 lb-ft (430 Nm) VS 325 lb-ft (440 Nm)
0-5,000 rpm VS 0-5,800 rpm

I drive a standard 85kWh and drove a 60kWh for a day.

While 60kWh is impressive, I noticeably feel it's no match for my standard 85kWh. It's not instantly as swift or as nimble as mine!

I think there is a some individual variation, but I get a hair under 5s in my S85.

Logic and common sense tells us that the standard 85 has got to be faster then the 5.1 seconds 0-60 done on a vbox by the 60kh see link here .
http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/tesla-model-s-60-kwh-vs-tesla-model-s-85-k....

60 hp on a 300hp car is 20% more horses and there is still even more torque on the 85 with not really a weight difference if at all on a 4700 pound car... the p85 got a 3.9 with a 1 foot roll out the 60kwh got 5.1 ... we just need someone with the standard 85 and a full charge to attach a vbox and let her rip... it has to be somewhere between 3.9 and 5.1 but where? any guesses?

Is anyone out there CERTAIN that the MS actually has 302HP for the S60 and 326HP for the S85. I know that's what Tesla claims, but what are the laws regarding that? They seem to give underrated estimates on 0-60 times, can they also underrate the HP?

I've not seen anywhere on any of their information that the batteries have a different weight. Is it possible that the S60 and the S85 have the same HP and Tesla is just underrating the S60 for marketing purposes so as not to undercut their S85 sales?

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/anyone-have-their-60kwh-weighed

ddruz@aol.com | JANUARY 26, 2013
I made a typo in the recap which djp copied and pasted above. The battery cells are 3.1 ah not 3.4 ah. Corrected:

Received a written reply from Tesla confirming curb weight and battery cell type for the 60 kWh cars. Recap of 85 kWh vs 60 kWh information:

-Curb weight: 4647 lbs 85 kWh, 4464 lbs 60 kWh
-EPA miles per charge: 265 miles 85 kWh, 208 miles 60 kWh
-EPA MPG electric equivalent: 89 MPGe 85 kWh, 95, MPGe 60 kWh
-Both cars use Panasonic 3.1 ah 18650 Li-Ion cells, the 60 kWh cars use fewer.

@HenryT
I don't think the argument in your last paragraph is reasonable: I'd prefer to buy the 85 over the 60 due to extended range, not HP, since either has enough power to make you grin till sundown. ;)

@tobi
I'm not saying that's what's happening, but according to dragtimes (never heard of it before reading about it here), the S60 is about the same speed as the S85. So it's likely that Tesla has misrepresented the 0-60 times. I'm just wondering if they did that, did they also misrepresent the HP too. And would that be legal.

Legal? Yup. Happens all the time. BMW drastically underrated the 335i when it was first released.

why would they just underrate the 60kwh? im sure all three may have been slightly underrated in 0-60 but it makes no sense to underarte just 1 of the 3... im also sure the hp and torque numbers are correct as that is from a dyne ... why not just have someone do a xbox s85 0-60 run, video it and post to solve all problems?

What about p85+?
Just wondering how that compares.

I recall the Tesla website at one point having 3 different 0-60 times for the Non-Performance models:

40: 6.5
60: 5.9
85: 5.4

@cb9
Haven't seen any differences mentioned between P and P+ battery-wise. Not sure how much the better handling and/or grip(is there?) influences any 0-6 time.

@HenryT2 - I suspect the motor and inverter are the same on the S60 and S85, but the difference in HP and 0-60 times is due to how much more power can be drawn at once from the 85kWh battery than the 60kWh.

There is a saying the torque rules 0-60 but power rules the 1/4 mile.
It is largely true so it is reasonable to have the S60 and S85 have similar 0-60 times, however the 1/4 mile will strongly favor the S85.

I have the 85 kWh I did 5.1 Sec 0-60

5.1 sounds about right for S85. I'm a whole numbers guy and the truth is I can't feel the difference between a 5.3 and 5.7.
Now if it was a 4.0 sec vs. 5.0 sec. I can feel that. The traction control was not disabled on the S60 in the comparison video. Think there would be any difference if it was disabled?

I've driven the MS60 (mine), MS85 (loaner), and the P85 (test drive). From 0-60 mph, you can't tell much difference between the three. But after 60mph, you can tell the 85s pull harder. The P-85 has what I call a "G-force" beyond 60mph. In Houston, whenever Tesla brings a loaner car out to me, I asked last time if they ever loan the P-85, and he said they used to. But too many drivers were getting speeding tickets, and one guy crashed! Personally, I think the P-85s are just too powerful! It makes me wonder if most of the drive-unit issues Tesla is having is mainly with the P-85s. They probably produce too much horsepower for the drive units to handle. So they break.

@rmitchell108: Even if people are driving them hard, the drive units should be able to handle it. The hardest driving anyone subjects their P85 to in the US is nothing compared to what it would be subjected to in Germany. This is why it would be great when tesla gets into racing as it will result in more durable and better designed components for everyday use.

From the earnings call yesterday it seems most drive unit issues are the result of not serious issues and I'm glad they were able to figure out and address these issues before MX and MIII comes out.

This is what makes Tesla generations ahead of other car manufacturers as they will have to figure all these issues out at some point.


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