First Real Competition? 280 Mile Audi R8 E-Tron

The price is probably not going to be in the ballpark, but the range is pretty impressive as were the old specs:

381 hp
605 pound-feet of torque
0 to 62 in ~ 4 seconds
Top speed 124 mph

I wonder if Audi is going to build a supercharger network?

It will sit two and costs more than twice as P85+. The rest of specs do match those of MS though. As always the Audi does look cool.

Yay. We need more i8 competitions!

Not an i8 competitor - this is a 280 mile (ideal miles, I assume) BEV. I agree with @carik that the price will likely be 2X the P85+. However, they can steal a page from Elon's playbook and have the battery tech trickle down into the rest of the Audi product line and horizontally into other VW Group products.


Top speed 124 mph... Germans will be disapointed.

So Audi basically just introduced its response to the Roadster.

No thanks.

Once these 2 seats roadsters goes to $150K to $200K range, they become toys for selected few.

So i8 / R2 Etron are competitors of a different sort. They won't be competing in EV range per se. They will be competing in the same bragging rights and rich toy segments.

Dollar to donuts, the prospective buyers of these cars wouldn't be worried about range for long road trips as there are no rooms for luggage. They would most likely fly to the destination instead.

COST??? R8 E-tron go for it !! “if you have to ask”… HOW MUCH??
NO pricing information available , but one word can be used!! : EXPENSIVE.
At least 1 1/2 times more than P85+ and no superchargers??

Let's see, not mass produced, very expensive, two seater, lower top speed than Tesla Model S, no superchargers. No, I don't think it'll be much of a competitor.

And don't forget, it's "built upon request"... bound to be a real winner from a mechanical and reliability standpoint.

@Kliest +1 I wonder where those German trolls are now.

@ramtaz An R8 V10 costs 1 1/2 times P85+. e-tron sure will cost considerably more.

BTW isn't this car just a Roadster except the Audi packaging?

You guys are missing the point--forget the R8 and recognize that VW Group apparently has a battery pack good for 270 miles that they can propagate into the rest of their product lines (Audi, Porsche, VW, etc) and, unlike Tesla, they can subsidize the cost of the pack via their ICE profits.

The sky is not falling, if the battery pack proves out, its really the first serious competition for Tesla. That being said, I am not sure Elon would consider the electrification of VW Group a bad thing.


@Omar - I'm sure GM can force a 300 miles battery pack in their Suburban now. The issue is how much would each 300 miles battery pack costs GM per vehicle? How much more can they charge for an EV version of the Suburban?

If VW can reduce their battery cost by 300% and be competitive to TM, then the more power to them. This would fit within Elon's Utopian world of true EV competition.

Finally! A car with range competitive with Tesla!

Once VW group creates an international SuperCharger network to keep it powered. . .
along with a second generation Sedan that comes in much cheaper. . .
And then an affordable third generation "people car - volkswagen". . .
Good to see Audi stepping it up a notch.

I was waiting for the Audi R7 to be released in the US when I stumbled onto the Model S release dates.
The R7 was never released.

Now there is little evidence of the Audi R7 left on the internet.

@omarsultan Anyone can make a 100 kWh battery pack. Even you can do it. No?

1) How do you know VW would not license the SuperCharger - Tesla has indicated their willingness to do it under the right circumstances and it supports their vision for large scale electrification of automobiles

2) Large companies like VW and GM can pick whatever price point they want. The look at profitability across the life of a product not at an individual product basis, and they will happily play with pricing to jamb up the competition--remember that parts and service is a significant revenue stream for them. If they lose the initial sale to Tesla, then not only have they lost the immediate revenue but also several years of parts and service revenue.

3) GM has not hinted at a 300 mile pack and it would not make sense in a Suburban anyway -- too much weight

4) Perhaps "anyone" can make a 100kWh battery pack in a lab, but other than Tesla, only VW seems to have productized something that large


Looks like Audi is only 6 years late to this party...

My point is putting even a 100kWh battery in a $200K+ car accomplishes nothing for the EV revolution other than the PR value. Anyone can do it if cost is not a consideration but cost is always THE consideration. You can say EV has arrived when, and only then, someone could make a 60 kWh or so battery at a cost of less than $10K.

A lot of smugness on the boards today - VW Group should not be taken lightly - they absolutely have it in their power to blow up Gen III plans.


jam, not jamb.

I'd love to see other companies contributing to the supercharger network. I think Elon would like that too. He's not afraid of competition, this is why he built the company, to bring it about sooner.

Yeah right, they and Toyota the two biggest ICE auto companies in the world will do everything they could to make non-ICE car of the future.

Hmmm... second tier range, slower 0-60, less practical, no supercharger network, lower top speed, unproven reliability... but I must admit, that is still one sexy piece of sheet metal. I'll bet it has two cup holders per person, too.

If it gets too expensive, it might as well be competing with the Rimac concept one.

@carik: one way to do that is to starve the innovator (Tesla) to regain control of the market


Omar - I think the rest of the folks aren't as impressed with the Etron offering now as it poses no competitions to Tesla for some time.

Perhaps VW is copying TM's playbook to offer ultra luxury play toy initially. Then propagate the EV tech to mid range cars, and finally to entry level vehicles.

It would take several iterations / years / perhaps a decade in order for VW to catch up to where TM will be by 2017 (MX, G3). If this is indeed VW's road map, then Elon just succeeded in the first step of eliciting a competing EV offering, even if they're six years behind...

Never underestimate the competition. If Toyota and VW truly wanted to capture market share with an EV they could do it. The only thing at this time is that they don't really want to do it. Toyota has a great mass market EV in the Tesla based RAV4. But they only sell it in California and that's only to meet the emissions standards in that state. There is a person in Illinois that ordered one and had it shipped here, but can't get it serviced at a Toyota place. Audi selling cars built on request is also an indication that they don't take EVs seriously. (Tesla also builds on request if you think about it. But they are committed to EVs.) I think this is the key to why VW and Toyota are years from competing with Tesla. It's the lack of commitment not the technology.

@AR - "built upon request" - that smells like a new (for Audi) sales model. Maybe even home delivery with a product specialist?

@David Trushin Agreed. Business history tells us established companies that dominate the market never do well when facing new disruptive product and technology. Ego certainly plays a role but there is also the reality part. Do they try to make the new product goes away or do they really want to go in full force and help hasten the demise of the legacy products that have served them so well? Their hands are really tied in the fight. It's usually too late when they finally realized they have no choice but to do the later.

In addition company politic in any big corporations does not favor a full out fight either. The old guards who usually hold the key positions would not want the company to focus in the new area that resulted in their losing the power base. The large resource big companies have can be more of a hinderance than advantage.

Was Kodak able to takeover the digital photography market, or Blockbuster able to takeover DVD by mail and video steaming market, or Blackberry to takeover the smart phone market when they first saw the new technology showed up. They certainly had the power but they never could execute for reasons stated above. Another common theme is they all have put some half arsed effort at some point but it's always too little and too late. The business battlefield is littered with once formidable companies like Kodak, Blockbuster and Blackberry. Never say never that many of those major auto companies, even the top ones today, will not be added to this list.

IIRC, Euro mileage ratings are about 40% inflated over the EPA numbers, so figure 200 ideal miles, 150 real-world (w/o heavy accel!).

Kudos to Audi. 605 pound-feet of torque is pretty amazing. Is that front-end designed for moving cattle?

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