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Range Loss--Anyone else

Two weeks ago I had to take a 260 mile round trip so I max charged my S85 to an expected 270 miles. When I opened the garage in the morning the dash read 259. Since I needed every mile and was going to use every trick to make it without charging I was bothered by the 11 mile loss. On the way out I called Ownership and was told that my car only charged to 95.3%, not 100%. There were some explanations which were less than convincing to me, but I thought it might be a glitch.

After I returned I supercharged to max again and got to 261. Again, I called ownership and was told they had investigated, and everything was fine, but my green bar still had about an eighth of an inch of gray. No one was able to explain this discrepancy.

Today I have a 260 mile round trip and supercharged last night to 262 and full. When I got home I plugged in to a 220 outlet. I woke this morning to a disappointing 258. The ideal was 292 in stead of 300. I unplugged and plugged in again. It immediately went to 297. It now tells me charging is complete with 294. I have 12,000 miles on the car. If the ideal range is 6 miles short, have I lost 2% of the battery in 12,000 miles? I know there is supposed to be some over time degradation and it's part of the deal.

Anyone else experience similar problems (choose your word: event, happening, occurrence--because it may not be a problem.

Sorry this isn't helping you, but just curious what speed you drive on your 260 mile trips?

On longer trips I always use the Max Range mode under the controls (I'm going from memory so it may be called something else). It doesn't help much... but sometimes on a long trip every watt saved helps.

More to the thread my max range after charged has changed slightly with some reversions of the software... Just Tesla trying to give us a more accurate estimate of range.

Are you accounting for 'vampire loss' after you charge?

The range will immediately start to degrade after charging is complete, unless you start driving right after the charge is complete (up to the minute).

The best thing to do if you want a full max-charge upon leaving, is to give yourself an extra ten to thirty-minutes to re-charge to full, right before you leave. Otherwise, you will lose a few miles the longer you wait.

Hopefully the next firmware upgrade will help solve this problem.

Well, isn't 265 the supposed max for a range charge?

If you're getting 262, you've lost 1.145% of your battery capacity...which isn't outlandish since you've already put 12k miles on the battery.

If that's all people lose - less than 1/10th of a percent per 1000 miles (or less than 10% after 100,000), I think we're in pretty damn good shape here right?

@info, First, it's pretty hard to get 260 actual miles of range out of a Model S for a long round trip, no matter what the rated range says, unless you are driving below 65 mph over flat roads. Chances are very high that the meter will reach 0 several miles before you return home. If you have a 20 mph steady headwind, you're just not going to make it.

Second, your battery degradation is quite normal, maybe even better than normal. I only have 7.3K miles on my Model S and a 100% charge goes to no more than 261 rated range.

Of course you should time your extended charge to complete about 1 hour before you leave, no more than that, to minimize vampire loss. The 1 hour of idle time allows the battery to cool at the cost of about 0.5 miles of range. The most stress you can put on the battery is to use it at high temperature at full charge and then floor it.

I think you should look for a way to charge for an hour or two at your destination, before returning home. Even if it's only at 120V, it could make all the difference between getting home and getting stranded.

Judging by the behavior of another Model S that I saw (I don't have mine yet), once the car achieves the requested state of charge, charging activity stops and the vampire drain begins. The power connection does not feed the vampire drain, but the car will top itself off when the charge falls below a certain level. I noticed that I could force a charge by unplugging and re-plugging the connector to get back those few miles.

I just gonna go out on a limb here (sarcasm)...EV range in NOT an exact science.

Your range is your range. The calculation however scientific it might appear, is still just a SWAG.

Calculating to the tenth of a percentage point on battery loss seems a bit excessive...

I lose range (not calculated) quite often because I love the rush of the acceleration I get.

Like everyone else, I would love to know the exact amount of battery degradation I am incurring, but I doubt the range calculation on the dashboard is the correct instrument for that.

It's an awesome car, even if I lose 10% per year, I hope I don't, but I won't complain here about it.

If I lose 10% per year, you can bet I will be complaining. That is 40% loss in 4 years, which would be completely and totally unacceptable. Imagine 10% of your gas tank disappearing every year on your regular car. That's not something many people would tolerate.

My statement was about how i love the car, not meant to be taken literally...

quite similar to the Rated Range display on the dashboard, which is a guideline...if taken literally might lead to unnecessary anguish like on a random forum or along the side of a road, 4.3702 miles from home.

you're not seeing any degradation at all. it's just a factor of battery pack balancing and small vampire loss from electrics that are on 24/7 while the car is 'off'. thats it. it'll probably nver climb that high again from the 1st time you charged due to the way battery pack balancing works. you'll see some drop, a little more drop, then a month later you'll come out and it'll be back up again. i'll say it again, it's battery pack balancing, not degradation. period.

Get firmware 5.0 to help with the new sleep mode.

Thanks for the ideas, guys. It gets weird from here. I left at 6:30 for Indio, 131 miles away. I tried not to go over 63, drafted some trucks and wound up in Indo with 147 miles left from the 261, using about 270 kwh. I stayed about an hour and had 131 mile trip home. This meant that I had 16 extra miles. Within 30 miles I was even. I then went down 12 miles, but coming down from Beaumont (elevation 2650) I got all 12 back + another 5. I arrived at my office with 17 miles left and had covered an actual 262.

This means that I could have gone 280. And I was concerned? The first time I tried this Indio round trip, I was way short, but I went 75. Someone suggested slowing down and making it without charging and he was a genius. The elevation had a lot to do with it. Indio is 100 feet below sea level and Long Beach is at sea level so you are going to lose and gain mileage with the hills but the losses and gains will even out. Another factor was the lack of wind. Now why I got such good mileage is beyond me--but I'm happy about it.

At 55mph on flat ground you should get 300 mile range. This is the 'Ideal range' of the 85 pack, with ideal being 55mph on flat ground. This has been achieved by others and thus your range is not far from that.

@Amped 10% a year would not be 40%. It would only be 34%. Feel better? :-)

I would love to lose 10%/year, as Elon has declared anything above 30% would trigger a battery pack replacement. Can we say new pack three years in? Given the motor is supposed to last 30-40 years, I'm happy for 3 more years of life on the Model S.

Unfortunately, you'll probably lose only about 7.325% in 3 years. Give or take. So you'll be stuck with the battery. ;)

Well, I have been seeing an INCREASE...
Call me crazy, (just don't call me collect) but when I first ot my S I was getting just over 300Wh/mi. Now I consistently get under 300Wh/mi.
Come next month it'll be 1 year old and have about 8000 miles on it.
Just drove it down town and back yesterday with 98 deg temps. A/C on the entire time. Logged 112 miles 98% on the freeway at 70+mph and averaged 282Wh/mi. That's my new personal record.
My next test is coming up when we take it to Vegas again and I'll see for sure if my run this year beats the 318Wh/mi avg for 640 miles with a 64mph avg I got initially...

I finally did a full charge after many months of watching my 90% rated charge miles decline. For this charge I started at 53 rated miles and ended up at 252 with no vampire loss. This is a 4.9% loss on a car delivered the end of January that has 10,000 miles on it. I have been running the car mostly between 50 % and 90% charge. One interesting observation I noted and recorded is that when I arrived at my destination, the rated miles were 150. 30 minutes later I check the car on my iPhone and the rated range jumped to 156. I've never had this happen to me in the past, i.e gaining 6 miles after sitting for 30 minutes. I wonder if a recalibration might have taken place after I parked the car. If this is true, is it possible that if I fully charge the battery the miles might end up higher this second time. Any thoughts?

Since Head-wind accounts for much of the range loss, I have wanted to get an inexpensive wind speeed meter for mounting on the rearview mirror support. Soesn't have to be accurate, just close enough to provide an intelligent guess whether it is possibl to drive at the current traffic speed or not. The second request I have for Tesla in this regard is; When is the reactive cruise or smart cruise coming to make it easier to safely draft a truck, so I don't have to keep wishing for the somewhat promised super chargers for the midwest.

Dr Bob, If you have a targeted amount of AMPs you need to draw per mile, then you can always look at your energy graph and then adjust your speed to achieve your goal.

Once you've had the car for a while, you'll notice that when you get in after a "full charge" (range or otherwise), it has varying values.

This is because it charges to a certain point and stops. Vampire drain kicks in. And it eventually drains down to a point where it starts charging again.

In my 60, the values range from 175 to 185 depending on where I catch it for a standard charge.

@GReese +1

My S60 has 180 - 185 after a standard charge as well.

@DJay,

Yes, I have seen my battery need to balance for up to 6 hours a couple of times, which then showed a higher range after, and in subsequent charges. I've seen 246->251->255 and 251->254.

Peter

A wind speed indicator would be cool information. Problem is whether to slow down or speed up. Speeding up means spending less time into a headwind. Slowing down mean less power usage. Any pilots in here????

@fordy - no question here. Wind resistance is a function of the square of vehicle speed, so energy loss to wind is exponential. Here's the formula for the force of drag:

F(D) = 1/2 x P x v^2 x C(D) x A

Your drag force is proportional to the square of the velocity of the car with respect to the wind.

In contrast, the time savings from going faster has a purely linear relationship with velocity.

If you have a linear force working in your favor, and an exponential force working against you, you maximize range with a lower velocity.

You might, however, speed up if you have a tailwind. Speeding up will still cost you range, but you'll exceed the rated range meter on the car anyway.

Rig a pitot tube under the nose cone?

You can drive 388 miles (625 km) with one charge (at "realistic" speeds... Not sure what those are).
A Dutch University tested this:

http://www.tesladriving.nl/real-long-distance-recordpoging/ (In Dutch, so use Google translate if required)

Impressive!

@Peter I'm curious are these rated miles with a full charge?

"Yes, I have seen my battery need to balance for up to 6 hours a couple of times, which then showed a higher range after, and in subsequent charges. I've seen 246->251->255 and 251->254."

The Roadster has a "top up" button on the screen you can push, to make it charge that last little bit. You can use this when you come out to the car after it's been plugged in for a while and you notice it's not 100% full because it's a few hours since the last charge cycle ended and charge has been slowly trickling out since then.

Is there something similar on the Model S? If so then using this can take away some of the uncertainty in the measurements. It doesn't resolve the balancing variations though.

34,800 miles Max charge is 261.

I rerely max charge but I'm currently headed to Key west and had a Lang leg between Williamsburg VA and Florence SC so I max charge.

Yes we will be keeping our batteries after 8 years :-)


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