Forums

JOIGNEZ-VOUS À LA COMMUNAUTÉ
INSCRIVEZ-VOUSIdentifiant

"right under your nose" may means:

... combining
the discussion of swappable batteries and the fact, that people say, they cannot swap it- it's to complicated within 5 miutes

and Elons hint "under Your nose".

For me, it sounds like a secondary swappable batteryback right under the nose of the Model S in the frunk.

Agree?

I like this idea more than swapping out my battery for someone else's with the idea of getting my battery back on the return trip.

TM could do a secondary battery to supplement the primary battery. Owners could use/reserve these for long-distance trips, taking up space in the deep cavity in the frunk, and then when the trip is over, return the secondary battery.

This makes a lot of sense to me.

I cant believe this. How many full battery's they need in stock in one swap center?
an unbelievable extra cost en difficult to run without any people.

This was discussed before and makes sense. I wonder how may extra miles can be provided by a "battery" in such limited space and where they will swap them.

The weight of a battery with any meaningful capacity, placed in the frunk, would ruin handling and drastically affect the range of the primary battery. I think you're on the wrong trail.

I think we are more likely to see a 100-120kWh battery first introduced for swap, and then used in the X.

L8MDL has a very good point, adding hundereds of unplanned pounds at the front of the car would have a big effect on how it drove. it would also compromise its braking by putting extra load on the front brakes that wasn't planned for durring the design. Most cars have larger front brakes than rear ones to compensate for the large mass of the motor in the front and the resulting weight balance. The Tesla actually has larger ones in the rear because of its unique design.

This has been discussed in earlier threads and IMO the best answer was swappable "Aluminium–air batteries" that fit into the square hole of the frunk that is under the dashboard (i.e. "right under your nose").

Aluminium–air batteries have one of the highest energy densities of all batteries: currently ~1.3kwh/kg (projected ~2kwh/kg). At these energy densities, a 20kg battery will add ~26-40kwh for added range of ~80-125 miles (@320wh/mile) and a 30kg battery will add ~39-60kwh for added range of ~120-190 miles (@320wh/mile).

In terms of handling, adding 20-30Kg of weight under the dashboard is negligible and should not impact handling of the car.

The downside of Aluminium–air batteries is that they are not rechargeable in the traditional sense. The Al anode must be replaced. However, this is just fine if Tesla is going to 'swap' the batteries and recharge it themselves by replacing the anodes.

The only other issue in my mind is cost; I am not sure if this economically viable. However, I have little doubt that if anyone can make it happen, its Elon.

The label on the drivers side door frame of my P85 says do not exceed 903 lbs of occupants and cargo. Five @ 150 lb = 750 lbs leaves 153 lbs for cargo and extra battery. Not much of a battery.

it must be something with the trunk... it's the Cars nose, I'm shure. And it makes sense

mdemtri:

Your assessment makes perfect sense. This would fit Elon's "under your nose" comment, his comment about "faster than pumping gas", and the speculation that metal-air batteries are likely being developed by Tesla. We'll see.

JP

I think everyone is reading too much into the "under your nose" bit. It's just a phrase that means "plainly obvious to those who look".

Swappable batteries have been discussed ad nauseam. It still seems unlikely despite everything that's been said.

I get it now, he's talking about national mustache month in June. I think if all men (and women if they can) grow out their mustache for the month of June, Tesla will provide a 23.22% discount on the new and improved tech package activated via software upgrade.

I believe in that same text he said "refill your battery" or "recharge your battery". I have no idea what he has in mind, but I don't think it's a battery swap.

The tweet was: "There is a way for the Tesla Model S to be recharged throughout the country faster than you could fill a gas tank."

jk2014 |...very good, I'm on it

@jbunn@hotmail.com

A secondary Aluminum-Air battery could "re-charge" or "re-fill" the main Li ion battery while you drive, so this idea is not in conflict with Elon's statement. You could simply put the secondary battery in the frunk, connect it up, and off you go!

It's a longshot, but.....

Not simple, but theoretically possible.

The Air-based batteries are 1-2 orders of magnitude higher in gravimetric energy density, so a 150 pound pack that drops into the frunk could potentially match the cars built-in capacity.

Safety and cost are challenges.

The lower power density inherently helps limit sudden, violent discharge in an accident.

Business model engineering could address the cost. You'd effectively just rent it and swap it for recycling at waypoints.

You wouldn't use it everyday, but if you planned a road trip, it would give you new options in addition to the SuperCharger network.

Both are aimed at the current deficiency relative to gas, which is refill time.

In classic disruptor strategy, you don't simply match the competition, you far outclass them, to erase any residual doubt. (This is why there's a 4 sec 0-60 time. That kills off the performance doubt).

You could drop in such a cell in less than 3 minutes, which is 3X faster than a gas stop. Better than gas, not just equal.

If each swap cost $100, it would compare with a fill-up of premium gas. If the recycling cost more than that, they could conceivably stomach it to a degree, because few people would ever use this,.

But offering it would preempt the anxiety point. This reassurance would kill off another argument against the switch to EV''s. Even if they can only demo it now, and deliver next year, it will affect purchase behavior immediately.

Perhaps it is more than wild speculation.

One by one, Elon is systematically chopping down the barriers to change. This could help if be can pull it off.

If it is something major, like battery swapping, then the announcement will relate to a plan that TM may begin to work on now, but will become available to future purchasers, distant future purchasers.

If it is a plan that will affect existing owners in the immediate future, then it will be something not so major, an option to add (and pay for) hardware to upgrade to 4G.

Edit: "like an option"

If it is under your nose, it would be your mouth! Forget the battery, it’s probably going to be better voice recognition.

All, I know is I'd rather be outside driving my S than sitting here reading the forums. Can't wait.

Akikiki, even tougher is the separation anxiety I have created leaving my Model S in FL while I go North for the summer having driven it for 6 months.

I don't think you could mount a battery in the frunk- i doubt the big power feeders could easily be routed back to the charging electronics in the rear very easily.

I wasn't paying particular attention to the emergency responder's video, but I think it indicated that the power is in fact routed through the frunk.

> The Air-based batteries are 1-2 orders of magnitude higher in gravimetric energy density,
> so a 150 pound pack that drops into the frunk could potentially match the cars built-in capacity.

@Mark K - Interestingly, depending on the exact weight of the pack, that would shift the Model S weight distribution from a nearly perfect 48/52 to almost perfect 50/50. Hmm. Coincidence? ;-p

DTsea - you wouldn't need big feed lines. This supplemental battery concept only gradually replenishes your main pack - so it would need to carry only about 80 amps, not the hundreds that the SuperCharger and motor wiring need to carry in the rear of the car. The internal wiring would be like half a mobile charge cable.

All still speculation, but what's new and more credible now is the explicit statement in the quarterly filing that battery swap facilities are now on the plan.

The frunk pack concept may actually have merit. We'll see what happens.

Important perspective is to look at this as something you would use only infrequently, so you'd occasionally just rent it. It doesn't change your purchase config.

But if you knew that for a couple hundred bucks in rental / energy cost, you could have 500 mile or greater range for road trips, that would squelch a lot of criticism about making the switch to an all-EV stable. Remember, because this would be an add-on pack, you still have your main pack, so it would effectively double your range.

A lot of people who buy now figure they'll revert to their ICE car, or rent one if they have a long trip. But that winnows the market. If, for less than a rental car, you could rent an extra pack, another barrier would fall, and more buyers will line up. And current owners could ditch the ICE car they are keeping as backup. That saves insurance, maintenance, capital and space.

If TM could pull it off, Presto! You'd have a pure EV solution that refills faster and goes farther than gas cars. That could quickly change perceptions, and turn the market on its ear.

DouglasR - If this is in fact the plan, I'd guess every car already made has provisions to accept it.

"Right under your nose".

The playful, Easter Egg hunt dimension to how all of this emerges is delightful.

You dont get something for nothing. If a 150 pound pack that fits in the frunk and can match the cars capacity existed, then why do I have a heavy expensive battery under my car? Come on... think about it. Makes no sense.

@jbunn@hotmail.com

Because you cannot recharge an Aluminum-Air battery at your house; it requires changing the anode. See my post above for details, but the Aluminum-Air battery is practically a one time charge for the end user, but can be quickly be recharged by Tesla after a swap.


X Deutschland Site Besuchen