After the first lot (1000 in U.S. + 200 in Canada + whatever international) of Signature cars are released, will Tesla continue to sell the Signature Model S, or is that the end of the limited edition series?
That's it, the end.
You can always "Option Up" a production Model S to come close, with the exception of some cosmetic things that won't be offered. But it will probably cost more to do that, and the badging won't say "Signature".
I thought Tesla would have released some suggested pricing for the Signature by now. I guess reservations have been so strong, they haven't had to. Too bad, I might have upgraded my (P).
I expect that final Signature pricing will come in over $90K after taxes, and before the $7,500 tax break. I wonder what would happen if some of the (S) reservation holders want to downgrade after Signature pricing is finally released?? Do they go to the front of the (P) line because of their sizable deposit?
$90k would be next to impossible. I've already estimated my "base" price (no options other than the 300mi battery that I will be forced by Tesla to get because I have a low number) will be $82,150 using your parameters above. For the Signature to be $90k, that means only around $6k of other options + tax.
The Signature will be loaded up without separately pricing the options. On the Signature, the options will be discounted. I'm guessing the pre-discount price will be around $90k. A great deal for someone who wants all the options plus more.
Putting up 40k in advance to pay more? We are not just helping with interest. We are showing interest and that is good for investment. I think we should get some options included for the same price that production model owners will pay for a bottom of the line 300mile range Model S. It is the only thing that makes sense. We have put up a lot of money for a vehicle that is not yet in production. Money that would be lost if the company were to go under. If the price is above 80k before tax rebate I for one will cancel and simply purchase a production model. Lastly, I don't think Elon's idea is to make as much money as he can because that simply plays into the naysayers who say, "well yea basically 100k, who can really afford that!". Elon said he will not be satisfied until every car is an EV and being stuck at north of 80k won't achieve that goal.
Every Tesla person I have talked to is estimating 90-95K for the SIG 40K in advance gets you to the front of the line and a reservation for a limited edition car thats fully loaded Some people just gotta be first I would do it but the wife would kill me : )
When you think about it, the Signature Edition must be at least $90k.
Options probably definitely in Signature (priced accordingly)
- Premium paint - Leather seats - Heated seats - Premium trim - Badging
- 21" wheels - Premium audio - Air suspension - Pano roof
If the base is $78,000 without all that crap, how much will the Signature be?
That said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the base. Even the $58k model will have twice the range of the Leaf, twice the storage, and twice the luxury.
Would you like fries with that? :)
I agree with My5bAby. Having put up a significant chunk of money and let it ride on a company, as I've said before, isn't "too big to fail" should buy you something. Premium paint is a minimum - almost a throwaway - in that regard. I don't expect the roof or the extra seats, but other stuff should come for free or for a low price. Maybe buying the options at cost? I don't see it as "I've gotta be first" so I tossed in the $40K.
A little social psych note: The #1 motivation for humans seems to be status. Given a choice of a $500K home in a neighbourhood of $400K homes, or a $1million home in a neighbourhood of $1.5M homes, the overwhelming majority choose A.
Brian H, so what?
To be fair to the Tesla folks, they never promised a 20-25% ROI of the reservation fee in the form of freebies for the SIG. The only published statements I recall were: 1) get one of the 1st 1000 cars made 2) possibly color and interior options not available to the production cars. 3) special badging 4) well equipped 5) 300mile battery Now if someone got a nudge-and-a-wink from a Tesla employee or were told they would be "taken care of" then I think that is reasonable cause to get pissed if the price is 90-95K. Otherwise it was wishful thinking on the reservation holders part and I don't think it is fair to get mad at Tesla. I found myself caught up in this exact type of speculation when deciding which car to reserve, P vs. S. The lack of a published price for the SIG eventually brought me back to Earth. If it is not in writing you just never know.
You're correct. No guarantees were made. On the other hand, some nice extras for the Signature were implied. Nowhere was it said that the Sig would cost more (nor did they say it would be the same cost as other 300s). I'm just saying that a "thank you" wouldn't be out of order for those who helped put millions in cash, interest free, at Tesla's disposal.
@EdG wrote: I'm just saying that a "thank you" wouldn't be out of order for those who helped put millions in cash, interest free, at Tesla's disposal.
It would certainly be nice, but my bet is that any extras will cost Sig holders. I'm just hoping that TM doesn't get carried away and price the Sig > $90K. If they do, I'm willing to bet they'll lose some Sig reservations.
Tesla is in a difficult position—to grow, it must show a profit fairly quickly, hence, the need to maintain meaningful margins and not give away stuff. As important, it needs to generate rave reviews out of the blocks and meaningful market buzz, so that sales broaden beyond those of us who are signed up to the tech. Keeping the price "reasonable" will help in that regard. It's a dilemma for the company. We'll see how TM reacts.
@EdG I agree with that; a "thank you" would not be out of order. $40K is a chunk of change for most of us and my understanding is that some have held reservations for up to 2 yrs now.
My point is that Tesla clearly stated what they were offering for that 40K reservation fee. The expectation of receiving something above and beyond what was stated is the peril here. One should expect Tesla(or any company)to live up to their public claims/statements and customer contracts. Nothing more, nothing less. Not stating the final cost of the SIG (and the fat reservation fee)has probably been the cause of such speculation of a "thank you" which is not unreasonable, but it remains speculation.
If Tesla does decide to surprise SIG customers with added perks, what constitutes an adequate/fair "thank you" is going to vary between reservation holders. There will undoubtedly be some unhappy SIG reservation holders when pricing is announced due to these variable expectations/speculations. I just don't think it is reasonable to take it out on Tesla if they deliver what they promised as this is the only fair expectation to hold them to.
Yep, until they announce pricing for all this crap, it's all just a guessing game.
My expectations are that the Sig will be $10k more than the 300 mile GP model and it will include the premium paint, leather seats, premium interior trim (hopefully wood grain), NAV, and premium stereo.
If they throw in 21" wheels, pano roof or air suspension, I think it will kick the price above $90k.
Signature holder are people who "believe" in Tesla, and where ready to give as much as support to Tesla people. However as any Platinium membership (in other domain) I expect to get some benefit, and not only having my car earlier than the other.
I hope that TESLA will reward the "believer" by offering a fully loaded car with less money benefit for them than on a general production car.
However, all of this is just speculation at that time, as we have no idea of what it will really be.
When I was at the Fremont event I spoke to a Tesla employee and he said that the Signature model wouldn't cost too much more than the general production model with the cost of separate options. So I believe you will be paying a little extra for the privilege of getting one of the first off of the production line, but most importantly getting early delivery in front of general production reservation holders who made reservations many months earlier than you.
Personally I think that most Signature Model S reservation holders will be lucky if they can keep the total cost under $100K, especially when you consider sales taxes and destination charges.
If I seriously thought I could get a Signature for around $80-85K I would upgrade my reservation, but as I said I think it will be closer to $100K.
Unfortunately, by the time Tesla releases the options and costs, I'm pretty sure the 1000 Signatures reservations will have been filled.
I'm sure they'll set up a waiting list after the Signature reservations are filled. It's very possible that more than few Signatures will drop down to GP once the pricing and options are announced. As you say, if Signature goes over $90k, some folks might say it's not worth it just to be early and drop down.
As signature holders drop down to GP, then Tesla could use the waiting list to bump GP holders (who waited too long to get on the original list) up to signature. They're going to make 1,000 signature cars regardless. If they don't get enough pre-sold, then they'll have some signature editions in the showrooms for impulse sales. All 1,000 cars will be sold regardless of the price.
It would be interesting to see if any Signature holders would say Yes to a second one for the wife if given the opportunity.
As some Signature reservation holders succumb to sticker shock and drop down to General Production, it will be interesting to discover how Tesla will reorder the respective lists.
I suppose the fair thing to do would be to check the date of the reservation and place the reservation holder in the General Production list where he/she would have been if he/she placed a General Production reservation in the first place.
"It would be interesting to see if any Signature holders would say Yes to a second one for the wife if given the opportunity."
Not me! She gets the Model S when I get my Roadster 3.0. :D
Just as a reality check, in today's ultra-low interest rate regime, the interest savings to Tesla from having a net $35k extra in the bank for three years is about $2700 (at 2.5% interest). Of course, nearly half of the Signature holders will have had their money on deposit for less than a year, with an interest value to Tesla of $600 or less. Soooo... if I were a Sig holder (I am a P holder), I wouldn't be counting on an overly large amount of "freebies" on my car. To the contrary, the likely bump up in the resale value of the car probably more than compensates for the interest.
RB, I agree. Having folks chip in $40k, I think, was more for publicity and for showing their investors that people take the car seriously. Getting the car quicker is a nice reward and more than makes up for the lost interest.
Right. I'm only getting the production model. Since I don't ever intend to sell the car (well children might after I'm dead), I don't care about the resale value.
V.B.; Sooo ... exclusivity sells. People pay for uniqueness, including having "limited edition" Signatures, whether or not they are objectively better than a fully loaded 300 mi. S. But I wonder -- will the Sigs come with the Sport package, the 4.5 accel?
Highly unlikely. While I would certainly welcome it, I think they're going to want the money from the upgrade to Sport version.
When I was at the Beta demo at Santana Row (about 3 weeks ago), one of the Tesla staff said they were internally debating whether or not it's a good idea to include the Sport package in the Signature models.
I'm pretty sure the Sport package will be an option for the Signature but not included in the base package.
Air suspension is likely included, 21" wheels as well (with option to get 19s I think, dunno if as 2nd set or just substitute). The fancy roof is a likely option and maybe w/e they decide to do with that blank spot in front of the touchscreen (if anything).
I certainly hope the price of the Signature does not include Sport or the panoramic roof; since I don't want either! The same for the 21" wheels, although they actually won't cost too much more than the 19" wheels, so that isn't as big a deal.
I can handle a premium of $10,000 for a "basic" Signature over a "basic" 300-mile Tesla, but not much more than that. For "big ticket" options I don't want to pay for something I'll never use; I would be upset if the Signature had a premium of $15,000 over a "basic" 300-mile Tesla merely because it included the Sport option or the 21" wheels or whatever.
Ncn -- I agree completely and am of the same mind
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