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Tesla S selected as car for High School Raffle

The Parent Association at Garfield High School in Seattle chose the Tesla S sedan for the car to raffle to raise money for programs to improve academic achievement. Educating students is an expression of hope and optimism about the future and the Tesla represents that future. For information about raffle tickets for the March 1 drawing contact phil-sherburne@msn.com.

It would only be a problem if that person won. :)

I'm sure he would refund the ticket price before the auction if anyone felt misled, but I suspect that the people for whom it would make the most difference are in this forum (and TMC), and now they know.

It is my understanding that TM has been very supportive of this effort. I wish there were an easy way to capture the tax credit. The PTSA can't use it.

Thank you all for your interest in the Raffle and for the many tickets you have purchased. We still have plenty of tickets so if your are interested in tickets contact me. We have sold about 680 tickets so far. So include the info on the raffle in your blogs and in other ways let your friends know about it. Our minimum goal for ticket sales is 800 which pays for the car. We will make that easily. WE are making a big effort to sell all 1650 tickets as that would raise $80,000 net for the school.I am trying to clarify the specs issue wherever I can--it is the Tesla Standard 85kwh car not the performance one. If you have other suggestions of where to market the raffle ticket I would appreciate them. Thanks Phil phil-sherburne@msn.com

The TeslaMotorsClub.com forum site gets much more traffic than this one. Have you posted there?

If you're near a Tesla store, you could have someone hang around out front with a sandwich board saying "Get Your Free Model S Here!".
;)

@DouglasR

Flyer says winner eligible for $7500 tax credit

Not sure how that would work.

@hsadler

You're right. I hadn't seen that. I frankly don't know, unless they give the winner the money to buy the car. But that would conflict with the "alternative" prize of $50k.

I'll see what I can find out.

@hsadler & Doug
If you read the instructions for form 8936 "if you buy for resale your are not eligable for the credit" I would interpret thar to be the raffle, on a onetime basis they are buying for resale. I think that for tax purposes the raffle is acting as a dealer.

To claim the credit it must be a new car that you put in service during the tax year, no question of price paid.

Since the winner will get a 1099misc for the value of the car they certainly can use the credit.

Bottom line see your tax accountant.

Winner paid $100 for it...

djp;
Yes, a sweet little $7400 cash profit to cover your charging costs for the rest of your life!

@ghillair

The PTSA wouldn't be eligible for the credit anyway, because they are a nonprofit. However, I looked at Form 8936, and you are right: the credit does not depend on how much you pay for the car, just whether the taxpayer was the first to place it in service, and did so in the tax year (plus other requirements). The amount of the credit is dependent on battery capacity. All versions of the Model S qualify for the maximum $7500 credit. Thus the winner of the car should get to claim the entire credit. Of course the $7500 would probably be considered income, so the net benefit of the credit would be somewhat less.

A bit OT, but has anyone taken a close look at the 2012 Form 8936? It doesn't work. I'll start a new thread on this.

Sorry, I misread the form 8936. It's ok after all.

How can a credit be counted as income, when it's a deduction from tax payable? That does not compute. A little too recursive.

@Brian

Well, I haven't checked with my accountant, but I would bet it's treated as income, just as a state tax refund is treated as income. The credit is used to "pay" your tax obligation just as cash is.

But I will admit, it's odd, just as it's odd to get a tax credit for acquiring a car even if you didn't pay for it. So I'll see what my accountant says.

I wonder what issues I'd run into if I got a ticket and won, trying to get the car accross the boarder (East Coast Canada).

So I spoke with my accountant, and she confirmed that you do not need to have purchased the car in order to claim the tax credit. You need to have acquired the car and placed it in service. Thus, you should be able to claim the credit if you win the car in a raffle.

As to whether the credit itself is taxable, the answer is: "sort of." You will be taxed on the value of the car. The value of the car is its full retail price, i.e., its price without the credit. That is, the price of the car before deducting the credit is treated as income, and is taxed as such; the credit can then be used to offset that tax and other taxes.

Please don't rely on me. Consult your own tax adviser.

@Vawlkus -- If you run the car across your boarder, it is likely to be very painful, at least for him. <|:) (Brian Hat)

DR;
That borders on a clever comment and emoticon!

Does someone have Phil's address please? This could be a wild ride but I just want to send the money to the right person.

If you search for the raffle on Tesla Motors Club website, you will find it within that thread.

His email address is in the first post of this thread. If you are looking for a mailing address and whom to make the check out to, see dtesla's post on the first page of this thread.

Thank you. Just wanted to make sure that post was legit! Would love to win.

Well, I just spent several hours standing in the cold and rain at Seattle's University Village shopping center, where the Garfield PTSA had set up a booth to sell raffle tickets. I volunteered to bring my car and show it off. There was lots of interest, and we sold a fair number of tickets. People loved the car. Mine is Pearl White, whereas the raffle car is Metallic Blue. Mine is also a Performance, whereas the raffle car is not. Otherwise, they are very close in options.

I was curious to see who would be interested in this raffle. There were a lot of young guys who already knew about the Tesla, and a few of them sprung for the $100 ticket. Seattle has a large high-tech community, and we got a lot of interest from both men and women involved in those industries, whether or not they knew about the Model S. There were also quite a few Prius and Leaf owners who were very excited to see this car. Finally, several people were supporters of Garfield High or education in general, or were friends of mine and amenable to a little arm twisting. In general, the people who bought tickets had several things in common: they liked cars and technology, they liked the idea of an all electric car for environmental or other reasons, they thought this was a good cause, and they could spare $100.

I think they have sold a total of around 800 tickets to date, so I'm pretty sure they will make some money on this. It is also good publicity for Tesla, so spread the word!

I sent an e-mail to inquire about ticket availability but I hadn't heard anything back. I guess I'll try again.

Yes, I think that was about the breakeven point, required minimum sales so the draw could go ahead. Everything from here on is what Garfield will net.

I finally got the specs changed on our blog to be the standard ones. We have sold 830 tickets so far--5 weeks to go. Thank you to those who have purchased tickets I encourage the rest of you to do so. Tesla has put up posters on our raffle in their Seattle and Bellevue showrooms. The drawing is on March 1. Phil

phil;
I wonder how many out-of-state purchasers the forum will generate for you!

Just be aware that Washington state does have some legal requirements for raffles above $5,000. Just don't want Garfield to run afoul of the rules, if word gets out...

@shop... what kind of limits?

http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/newsletters/5-164.pdf

Every state regulates raffles as left unchecked they could easily circumvent anti gambling laws. Here in California, the kind of raffle that this school,is doing would be illegal due to the 90/10 rule (Washington state does not have that rule). The 90/10 rule says that the value of the item being raffled can only cost 10% of the amount raised. Anyways, just be careful with the regs. For instance don't in fact allow web based payments for raffle tickets as Washington state doesn't allow that.

Ugh I wasn't careful enough about describing California's 90/10 rule. The item can only COST the organization 10% of money raised. So you can raffle off large ticket items as long as they were donated.

@phil-sherburne

Uh, oh...

http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/faq/raffles_faq.asp
http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/newsletters/5-164.pdf

You must get a license to exceed these limits:
Offer more than two public raffles in a calendar year. Gross revenue from the two unlicensed public raffles will exceed $5,000 in a calendar year. Gross revenue from unlicensed members-only raffles will exceed $5,000 in a calendar year.

Tickets cannot be sold over the Internet or telephone.
Tickets and/or payment for tickets cannot be mailed.

Is there a limit on the value of the prize I can offer?
Yes. Any single prize may not exceed $40,000 in value and no group of prizes during a 12-month period may exceed $80,000. A written request to exceed the prize limit may be granted to an organization if there is good cause shown to the Commission.

If we offer a vehicle as a prize, can we require the winner to pay sales tax and licensing?
No. These extra costs are considered a part of the prize and must be paid for in full by the organization offering the prize.

Can we cancel the raffle if we don't make enough money on the raffle to pay for the prize?
No. You must plan ahead and be realistic with your sales expectations to ensure your organization does not have a loss.

------
For those of us that have mailed a check from out-of-state, are we even eligable to enter the raffle? If not, I think you may need to look into this really fast!

I think you may have to review the following clause in the raffle info:
"NOTE: Winner will be responsible for any registration, taxes, title, and winner requested vehicle modification costs upon delivery."

Can you post the raffle licence information?

Geez, ir, I didn't mean to open a can of worms. I would suggest to chill out. It only becomes a problem if the wrong person finds out and makes a stink about it. That was the reason I mentioned it, just to caution the raffle holders to not get too crazy. Just remember, all this is in aid of a high school charity.


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