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Canadian pricing out... i am in tears

Canadian pricing is out:

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-motors-announces-canadian-pricing...

$64,500for base 40kWh model, Model S with the 60 kWh battery pack and 85 kWh battery pack will start at $75,200 and $85,900 CAD respectively. Base will have heated seats and decor included.

I am floored, you can't imagine my deception level following that announcement. Truly have the impression of being screwed here. Huge mistake from Tesla.

GB is stating that they took a really straight forward approach: "Canadian base prices start with U.S. pricing, plus 6.1 percent for import duties and an additional 1.5 to 2 percent, depending upon the model, for incremental transportation costs and country specific business expenses. The total is then adjusted using the current mid-term currency exchange rate."

Sorry but I am very familiar with the matter and the 6.1% duty doesn't apply to cars built in the Canada-USA-Mexico as part of the Free-Trade-Agreement. Only applies to cars sold in the US for example coming from Japan. So it should have said 6.1% more margins..... And doing straigh math 65,400 - 57,400 is 14% more than the 57,400 US price. Unfair

Stopping here to dry my tears and calm down

Or 3 months before (Elon's ideal). So if orders surge, so must production. If production surges, GB has to work for his salary!
;)

@Volker
"This isn't as explicit as it could be, but I think it is legitimate to take this as a hint. Since the battery is like a third or so of the entire car, in terms of weight as well as in terms of cost, there probably isn't much wiggle room left to make up for the "non-American content" with some winter package or the like..."

The irony: the more efficiently Tesla is able to manufacture their components the more foreign the car becomes.

The hope: as the cells become cheaper the car becomes more domestic.

@Nick Kordich

The parts content is the average for a "carline" (same chassis etc) so changing batteries for the Canadian market wouldn't help avoid the duty.

I am with toto_48313. Let's pressure our prime minister and some influencial people in the ministry of international trade and environment.

Anybody knows where to start? Who to contact?

btw, other than the battery and MB steering wheel, what else doesn't help making the cut. I have found that around 20% of cars imported from/to Can-Mexico-USA doesn't qualify to NAFTA (2006 data).

Leather and glass could be foreign sourced as well. Many of the electronics probably come from foreign factories too.

It wouldn't surprise me if the touchscreen panel is considered foreign as well since all the LCD material is Far East produced.

If TM paid import on the components, charging import again is kind of a tax on a tax.

Good news from George Blog :

The Canadian online pricing configurator, showing all pricing and options, went live late last week on our website. Canadian reservation holders can now start choosing their options and colours as they prepare to finalize their Model S. Later this week you’ll also be able to finalize your order online. Hint: Canadian Signature reservation holders should be on the lookout for an important email coming this week ☺

About that "55%" sticker; I guess the current requirement is somewhere around 65%. So there's a ways to go to get it up there. I really think Panasonic would have to put a branch factory in N.A. to get there.

I don't know much about North American regulations, but having followed the discussion here and elsewhere, I think you cannot compare the "55%" from the US sticker to the NAFTA requirements that have to be met to avoid the 6.1% duty. If I am not mistaken, the "55%" are based on the number of distinct parts (100 screws of the same type == 1 part) while the NAFTA requirement is based on cost (assuming the battery is 30% of the overall cost to build a Model S, then that's 30% "foreign" by those rules).

I may be wrong but in any event those fractions change massively depending on how they are calculated. You should have a close look at the details, otherwise it's just blue sky guesswork.

Since the battery is a large part of the cost and weight of the Model S, does it not make sense that the foreign content on the 85kWh model is higher than on the 60kWh model, and similarly from 60kWh to 40kWh? Could it be that the 40kWh model meets the 55% minimum duty specifications, but the higher models don't? We're talking a spread of over $20,000 in car value. The rest of the car stays exactly the same...

Well, there is also the German steering gear and air suspension, Italian brakes, and Chinese computer and display parts that add foreign content.

I remain very unhappy with Tesla's failure to attend to NAFTA considerations, because I remain convinced (without any substantive knowledge) that between Tesla and Panasonic they could have made the cut with some strategic price adjustments. Component costing is one of the bases for the determination of origin on mixed products.

We should, however, be accurate about the provisions of the treaty. The North American content requirement for cars is 62.5% under the net cost method.

For more than you will ever want to know about NAFTA, here's a link to the relevant section of the treaty:

http://www.nafta-sec-alena.org/en/view.aspx?conID=590&mtpiID=128#A403

+1 HaroldS

@HaroldS and pbrulott

I had a long-ish post that supported my point, but I lost it. To summarize though, I basically disc agree.

Having the 6.1% import tax is certainly undesirable, as it does not add value for Tesla or its potential customers.

However, that undesireable factor must be weighed against whatever benefits there were to choosing the parts they did and assembling the car that they did.

Given that this is a luxury car for a niche market (20,000/year is niche) with a shortage of supply and an excess of demand, I think the potential frustration and even potential cancellations of Canadian customers would be very, very low on the list of concerns when compared to the desire to build the car with the right parts, in the right way, for the right amount of profitability.

The assertion that Tesla could have simply and easily used different parts or made "some strategic price adjustments" to avoid the import duty doesn't really have any substance unless you know private facts about Tesla's business that we don't

Haha. "I disc agree." That's a good one.

That should say "disagree" up there.

" olanmills | August 22, 2012 new
...
I had a long-ish post that supported my point, but I lost it. "

Lazarus Add-On. Lose nothing. Ever. Save yerself scadoodles of time an' aggervation. Promise.

r: Lazarus Add-On
It resurrects lost family members?

No, records keystroke-by-keystroke your entries in Comment boxes, etc. So if you delete, crash, or just mis-click and lose one, it's easy to recreate it, or copy-paste it, etc. Searchable data file for old posts, if you choose to keep them longer than the default 14 min. (Site URL also saved, so you can go back exactly where any of them were being entered.) My setting is for 54 weeks.

@Volker.Berlin
http://www.teslamotors.com/en_CA/forum/forums/incentives-verg%C3%BCnstig...

I don't have permission to see this. Can you give a small resumé?

Fortega, I invented a country-specific "Tesla factor", and went from there. E.g., the Roadster is $109,000 (€79.500) in the USA and €84.000 ($115,000) in Germany, which leads me to suggest a .77 "Tesla factor" for Germany (including currency conversion).

My "Tesla factor" is a black box number that absorbs all duty, taxes, shipping, fees and assumed mid-term currency conversion rates that I don't know of in detail, but excludes VAT.

Then I applied that factor to the US pricing for the Model S and added 19% VAT to get some idea of where Tesla's pricing for Germany *might* end up.

Sounds logical Volker, but at this time $1 is €0.79 . I guess the factor will be a little higher ...

steven.maes, I agree. Obviously it's all guesswork, anyway. I try to make as little assumptions as possible. Roadster prices don't need assumptions, that's hard data I have. I feel better using whatever results I get based on actual data, and knowing that I'm very likely quite a bit off, than adding a number of weak assumptions to the mix and getting to a number which suggests it might be more accurate, but actually implies a far greater margin of error.

Which is actually to say: I'm horrified of the results from taking the currency rate development into account... I'm just afraid and imploringly hope that Tesla goofs up and accidentally uses the conversion rate from 2008 when calculating the prices for Europe!

:-) tumbs up !

There's also something else to consider: The €50.000-€70.000 price range for the base Model S aligns very nicely with "comparable" offerings (if you allow the term comparable here) for the E-class and 5-series. I assume that Tesla has an eye on those prices as well and I hope they take some guidance from the "competition".

MB E200 CDI: €40.000
MB E300: €52.000
MB E500: €71.000

BMW 520i: €40.000
BMW 535i: €51.000
BMW 550i: €71.000

(all prices including VAT, excluding options)

I'm sure all other Canadian prospective owners worked the numbers through like me in our trusty Excel workbooks where we have been earerly pricing out options lists.

I'm the proud owner on reservation #49 for a Signature Performance, so you know I've been on the waiting list for a VERY long time.

My car just increased from $114,777 to $127,270 which is 10.9%. Although not outrageous, it is still very disappointing.

I've heard some commenters say they will downgrade their car or deeply cut their options list to make up for the difference. The Telsa was suppose to be about no compromise.

I don't really want to remove $13k in options for a car that I'm just 89.1% happy with, which it will because things like that tend to eat away at me and bug me.

I'll be talking it over with my wife, but most likely we are walking away.

I wonder what the net-net effect in Canada will be of the boost from pricing certainty for new buyers vs. the retro-sticker-shock for existing reservers.

I put my deposit down in April and at the time budgeted the 60kWh. But as time went by and reviews came out, I had convinced myself to get the Performance. But with the price "increase" that was recently released, I'll be downgrading to the 60kWh or walking away. Simply because I will regret not having gotten the performance. But at this price point, I really can't justify the price...

Just got my Time to Build email Signature #152
Here we go!

@ Straight Shooter,

I ripped the tech package and potentially the Air supension to make up for the unexpected duty :-( and with 15% sales tax and 1% luxury taxe + unknown Maintenance charges and Personal Delivery fee, this baby is going way overboard for my own limits

And yes, I update my Excel based business case with the new figures


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