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Hill Assist

I really find it strange that in a 2012/2013 car there is no hill-hold feature standart. Does anybody know how the braking system of the Model S works? Is the braking pedal mechanical connected to device (magnetic or hydraulic) that activates and releases the brakes or is the pedal just connected to a sensor that sends an electrical signal to the braking device? In the latter case it should not be difficult to program a delay of 2-3 seconds between the release of the brake pedal and the release of the brake and should not take long to develop and implement.

Two thumbs up! Hill assist should be a high priority for the Tesla development team. It's a safety issue - I don't want to back into another car after releasing the brake on an incline. With any hope, this is a software fix.

I agree that it should have hill holing capabilities. But that feature is available to you if you have two feet: You can use your left foot on the brake, then apply your right foot on the accelerator and then release your left foot. You can also heal and toe with your right foot, but that takes more training. Usually I just use my right foot on the brake and quickly move it to the accelerator. Worst part of this is the clunk from the brake pedal popping up.

I live in San Francisco and drive on some of the steepest streets in the city. I don't even have "creep" enabled and I haven't had 1 issue. In the short time that it takes me to move my foot from the brake to the accelerator the car maybe rolls back 6 inches, a foot at the most.

Hill holders are clutch savers. This car has no clutch.

And remember, unlike an ICE, touch the accelerator of an S and it goes. No worry about the engine lugging or stalling.

heel and toe.

I find I can hold a hill with a light touch of the accelerator. I don't have creep enabled & will likely not enable hill hold. Reminds me of my manual car driving days.

Wow this is a problem I have with my 10 year old EV..thought Tesla would have solved it by now. Really the car shouldn't be moving backwards unless the car is in reverse, like all other automatic vehicles.
Not a problem for people who are aware of it..but if someone else (valet, friend, etc) uses the car it could be an expensive learning curve for them!
Hope is a software issue that can be rectified.

teddyg;
"... like all other automatic vehicles". Say what? Automatic what? It's a single gear drive. No clutching or gearing. Give the motor a little power and it will hold fine.

Also, the idea that automatics don't roll back is absurd. This is a non-issue.

Does the Creep fix this thus no need of Hill Hold?

The whining is amazing, guess folks have never driven a standard. High priority? - would expect bug fixes first, timed charging next, and then car functions for those who prefer to not drive the car, but the car drive them...

@jjaeger, what is that "standard" people have not driven? You mean manual? AFAIK "standard" transmission in US is automatic, stick is rarity.

I have seen one girl in driving school here that had driven several years in Los Angeles. Drive instructor didn't believe her when she said that she has no knowledge how to drive a manual. After first start doing jumps like some sort of kangaroo in wheels that skepticism went away.

That hill holding using brake could be done by computer. Car does have ABS so it already has capability to control brakes. Again, it is only software that is missing. And maybe sensor for detecting that it is in a hill.

Timo;
'Standard' means manual. Hangover from the early days when automatics were first introduced.

Timo's approach is the right path.

No extra sensor hardeare is needed. If you are in reverse, and the car starts to roll back, software can detect this and activate the brakes (which are already fully servo operable for ABS).

Think of this as just a further refinement like creep.

Although you can resist hill roll-back with just the accelerator, that's a bad way to do it becauses it eats battery even when you aren't moving.

A skilled driver can negotiate a steep hill with both feet, but with this car platform, a new level of drive management intelligence is possible, so why not not sieze the opportunity to further highlight the EV benefits? Upsides like regen single pedal driving are very well liked.

Give TM time to address the rest of the wishlist, and to thoroughly validate performance for a drive control feature like this, but I think it's a winner.

This is a no-brainer for a robo-car. Servo to zero RPM after coming to a stop until the accelerator is pressed...cool - works forward/backward on hills or if big fat dudes try to push the car.

(that said, it really is easy to do with your foot...such precise torque/speed control without fear of stall/lug/clutch wear)

It appears there needs to be a stiffening of the requirements to get a drivers license. This is a total "NON ISSUE" with anyone who actually knows how to drive. To those having problems, If I have to explain you would not understand.

Hill holder has been discussed a lot of this and the TMC forum. Folks seem quite passionately for it while others seem insulted that someone would need that functionality.

It seems to me that if the software/hardware in the car can allow for it - it seems logical that Tesla would implement it as an option (just like creep). For those that passionately want it - turn it on. For those that do not want it - keep it off.

The function is on the "punch list" so it must have been promised to someone along the way or would be on the software enhancement list.

Mark;
Why wouldn't you want to roll back when in reverse? And what are you doing in reverse on a hill?

I guesstimate that the amount of "battery eating" for holding the car still on a hill would be measurable, but only just.

Ugh..don't see why people get so upset about a clear "option" that Tesla should provide. If you don't want or need it don't worry about it. It doesn't bother me in my EV cause I am used to it...but guaranteed if you put someone who isn't aware of it, and has never driven an EV before, into that car they will ASSUME it is an automatic (because there is no stick shifter) and they will be SURPRISED when the car rolls back on them. Depending upon where they are when they first learn this, it could be nasty.
I know this from EXPERIENCE when friends drive the car.
I think it would be a good option to include, one that I might enable when letting friends drive, etc.

Alternatively, you could tell the friends the car will roll backwards if not restrained on hills. <8-0

wow people buy a 70k car and dont know how to drive, scary....

Hill assist in Tesla BEV could allow real one feet driving so that people without one leg could drive it. It's not a big deal, and it would be easy to implement. It's just one extra helper in a road to make driving even easier than it is now. Eventually we will have car that can drive itself when you feel tired or are driving really boring section of your trip and don't want to drive yourself right that moment. Kind of ever vigilant co-pilot.

Yes well sometimes you forget to tell people things if you are in a rush, etc. Some other friends let other people drive the car as well, etc, etc...EV's are noveltys at the moment and everyone wants a spin...hill hold is a damn good idea just as it is for automatic cars...there are a lot of bad drivers out there...as I said it doesn't really bother me...but I can see it being a valid option request for Tesla to provide at some stage in the future...and as is mentioned above is probably a software fix just like those who wanted creep so why not?

I can see it as an option in the future as well, but it isn't as simple as creep. We're talking about setting a brake and holding the car in position only in very specific scenarios. As a software engineer, I can see how this might seem easy to others, but it's not. I still don't see this as an issue, but I can see it as a perk. If some folks can't deal with hills, why not add it. What I do think is strange, is that people will assume that this is something that HAS to be included and they just can't believe that it isn't. Come on.

What about not making it a break issue at all? Can't the car just apply enough force from the motor to keep the car from rolling backwards when in the Drive position? Sorry not a software guy!

I have never had a car with hill assist and have driven in San Francisco and other locations with some steep hills. I have never seen a need for it even when I drove a manual transmission on a heavily underpowered car. If a car is so close on your tail that you back into them then it is their fault for being too close at least in California. Also, with the model S given the instant insane torque there is very little need.

I was taught that when you stop you should be able to see the bottom of the tires of the car in front of you over your hood.

There is only one time where it would have been useful. There was a stop sign at the top of an extremely steep hill and I was in my Prius with 5 adults and lots of luggage. The car could barely creep up when I floored it and there was always a couple of seconds of lag. The model S does not have that problem :)

Heh. Timo, there is no possible sentence in English in which "one feet" is correct.

Well, I guess it can be added with software like creep, however doesn't creep solved that issue already? I thought that when creep is enabled car won't move backward even on hill...
I think it is not an issue, but I undertand that for some people used to automatic transmission who has no experience with standard transmission it can be useful...

I had noted the same issue on a hill. turn creep on and the problem goes away. Creep = Hill assist for those who want it.


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