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People are getting nervous here

Hi all, a short update from Swiitzerland.

First things first: I love my Signature Performance Plus VIN14264, would never go back to ICE and have sold at least 2 Model S since taking delivery on August 20th. More are awaiting 4x4 Teslas.

However, we start to feel neglected over here and since our national Tesla officials often have less information than this forum, I want to note a few thougts before they show up in the news allover Europe. Perhaps someone at Fremont is listening in at some point.

Firstly, we are expecting the first snow anytime now. There are no winter wheels here yet. If this is not resolved by Tesla immediately, it could result in a grounding of our Model S fleet. I fear this would be allover the news if no solution would be found quickly.

Then, at the moment I have to refuse the 5.6 update every morning, because after that update the car will only charge at 24A instead of 32A. Nobody here can tell us why this is or if and when it will go away by means of further updates. Since there are no superchargers here and Tesla has delivered a cable/adapter set for Switzerland that is not really useful, I currently only charge at a meaningful rate at home and need the 3 phase 400V 32A.

Then, please, let us change the built in SIM card. We don't know what carrier you use, but It is agonisingly slow. In fact, it is completely useless. I am more than happy to pay for my own data SIM, but I would like to get rid of this really unfortunate setup from Tesla asap.

In general, please commuicate with us. When is the European online store coming, so we can order simple items like rubber mats for the f/trunks? What is happening with superchargers? When will homelink be working? But again, most importantly, where are our winter wheels?

Please Tesla, include us in your coms and start strenghtening your European base.

Thanks and happy Monday!

Why does Tesla have to provide wheels? Are there no after market wheels that will fit the S in all is Switzerland? Or are these already paid for wheels?

I don't know the specs on the electrical system there, but in the US a 30A circuit is rated only for intermittent use. A continuous load, such as charging a car for over 3 hours, has to be derated by 25%, so you can only use 24A continuously on that 30A circuit. Otherwise, continuous use of the rated current will build up heat in the wire and breaker, (hopefully) causing the breaker to trip before the insulation on the wire melts.

On the wheel issue, I would just buy a winter wheel type that you know has good quality. That doesn't seem to be Tesla's responsibility. I don't expect Tesla to provide any future wheels besides the 4 that come with the car.

If your phone provides tethering of data, you can share 4G (or whatever you have in Switzerland) with the car via wifi and have the fastest data that your phone allows.

Jat, please, do some research before commenting on European electrical systems. It is quite different from ours, and putting out info about wires melting when you don't know anything about their setup isn't helpful. Sorry to be so harsh, but these forums have enough incorrect info in them as it is.

Here is one link with info about European charging. http://insideevs.com/charging-a-tesla-model-s-in-europe-wvideo/

@shop
Jat clearly commented on US circuitry and mentioned that he does not know about European charging!

Sounds liked Tesla should stop deliveries outside their service area until they can catch up. I get the feeling they are putting cars in Europe a year or two to soon.

Seems like many European buyers are not interested in pioneering the new frontier and the problems that go with it.

http://www.tirerack.com/snow/WinterPackageMain.jsp?autoMake=Tesla&autoMo...

Not sure if tire rack ships to Switzerland. Here we just order the tires online.

24 amps doesn't seem like it would be an issue.
That will recharge overnight just fine. Full battery every morning.

@shop - regardless of where it is located, if you run more current than a wire is rated for, it will overheat. Fuses/breakers are designed to trip before the wire is damaged. What exactly do you think is incorrect about that statement, regardless of the location?

You should be well aware of the fact that the car only uses 80% of the rated circuit capacity because charging is considered a continuous load.

Just like the car currently drops the default current on an HPWC to 60A because it was blowing fuses and Blink chose to limit the charging rate to 16A on some of their chargers so it wouldn't melt the connector, it seems possible that Tesla would choose to reduce the charging rate to 24A because it is tripping breakers at 32A.

@jat
"You should be well aware of the fact that the car only uses 80% of the rated circuit capacity because charging is considered a continuous load."

That is not true in Europe!! In Europe when circuit is rated for 3*32A than it can handle continuous 3*32A and short time even more!
please read: www.teslamotors.com/en_EU/forum/forums/firmware-56-being-deployed-change...

And if it tripping someones breaker it's someones responsibility to reduce current for that specific location and leave it unchanged for other locations...
We would not update car for 5.6 if we knew that issue sooner :(

@jat
also I have to say that public charging stations are designed to deliver 3*32A continuously so why Tesla is limiting them too?

This is, if you read the initial statement, not a request that Tesla should get everything right first time trying but to listen and react to the early adopters also in the new countries they now move into.

Especially charging infrastructure is very different, we even have another soket in the MS you know. Limiting the same way as in the US makes no sense, our Type 2 chargers are rated at 3 phase 32A continued load for all of the EU. In Germany you lose insurance coverage not using winter tires and Tesla needs to deliver the car on them else you can't even drive it home.

So please accept there is a world outside US borders, Tesla decided to sell cars there, we early buyers are willing to coach Tesla and not just execute our rights as customers in civil law countries. So just listen and react.

32A cabling has to be 6 sqmm copper. Any thinner cable could overheat.
In Europe, it's not allowed to use anything less than 6 sqmm for 32A. Hence, there's no chance that the cable overheats at all, even when it transports 32A day and night for a century :)

Some places in the US appear to use 4 sqmm cables, which are only rated for 25A. Those cables can only transport 32A without risk for a short time.

Perhaps Tesla got wind of this and lowered the maximum charge current, just in case.
For Europe this is ridiculous, whichever way you look at it.

WRT winter tires and wheels, some European countries are very strict about ANY changes to tires or wheels without out (TUV?) certification or the manufacturer's blessing. I'm just guessing this is the root of the tire/wheel concern.

Well, (groan) I am just installing - finally - the 5.6, after the Ranger today repaired my 12-V Battery, which was defunct from the first time I set foot in the car.
So now I can only use 24 Amps in my 32-Amps socket I installed for the car's sake??? WHY???

Regarding Winter tires, I am changing mine the day after tomorrow, which is high time (-2 C today morning) in Stockholm.
I am putting these tires on the original rims, since Tesla still cannot remember more than 4 x TPMS. By the time I have to change back, Tesla will remember 8 TPMS:s or make it possible to programme them at home. It is Nokian 8 Hakkapelliitta, same size as the Summer tires: P245/45R19 with lots of studs (also available without studs). Tesla shops sell Pirelli Winter tires in the same size. What is the problem???

Robert

Who is in charge of Tesla Europe? There has to be a contact somewhere?

And I agree, Europe is a very different place with much stricter laws and rules than the US. Tesla needs to get on top of this quickly.

@patrick.meier: In the Netherlands, Tesla is pretty straightforward about the 13A/16A and 24A/32A issue that was introduced with 5.6: the limitation of the max charge amperage will be gone in the next upgrade. They are less outspoken about when this update will come - but for sure before the end of the year.

I installed 5.6 before this issue was well known, but even though I only have a single charger I have yet to experience any inconvenience about being able to only charge at 3x13A. It still charges 40km/h, so my car is still full every single morning.

@ pebell

They are less outspoken about when this update will come - but for sure before the end of the year.

Tesla has turned "soon" into a four letter word.

@jtodtman: I guess we have all become world experts in "holding our breath" :)

just a little correction: it's 26A, not 24A... But still it's annoying on longer trips without CHAdeMO or SuperCharger.

PS: I think Tesla is doing what they can, but next time we will wait a bit before updating software... just in case...

Tesla is not able to deliver winter wheels in Norway either. The problem is that many of us have already paid for the winter wheels from Tesla, and they won't even tell us if we can cancel those. They need to sort out this very quickly.

Sounds like Tesla needs the Europaen version of Jerome.

Well, they will find out that in Germany with civil law clauses superseding the contract with Tesla, if they sold 22kW dual chargers and deliver 18kW then there is a product defect they are obliged to fix or the price will be reduced or the car returned, etc. You can't supersede the BGB with a contract in those areas.

The issue seems to be making this setting part of the localization, etc. I suggest to default all links to 80% max. capacity with the option to overrule the default in countries where the limit makes no sense. If users have to confirm in that case that they override the default and need to have verified that the outlet / infrastructure is capable of the full charge amps that should also not be a liability issue for TM. It seems so easy, but do it now before everyone makes fun of TM in Europe!

I can understand your predicament over the winter tires. When I purchased my model s June 2013 p10353, the winter wheels were $2400.00 a set. I'm getting ready to install them shortly [Toronto Canada] and guess what they are now $4500.00 from Tesla, but I can't get them anyhow, they are out of stock and may be in mid November. I am bitterly disappointed with Tesla now.....I was so happy with them earlier and the car.....well I don't need to tell you about that, just superb. I am personally not going to accept this outrageous price change with out a fight, I just won't allow some marketing poeple to destroy the immense goodwill that many good people from Tesla are responsible for and that many owners enjoy. My advise to you would be to get tires from other vendors, they will most certainly be less $. or join me in my battle. Funny about the update, my model s is still working on version 4.5. but then here in Canada we expect this. Best of luck

@Basjames
I was disappointed by Tesla raising the price of snow tires as well as the lack of availability. I found a winter package at TireRack for less than the $2400. Can't really think of another car company that provided me my winter tires, so I don't think we can expect too much from TM when they are at the will of their suppliers. Almost everybody is still on v4.5, so it's not unique to the hinterlands.

There are winter 21" tires for sale in US, in fact made in Europe

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/21-winter-tires-available

@JamesM: while not one of the 'whiners', just maybe one might expect a vendor of a 100K car to DELIVER what was actually sold and paid in full.
Common sense? I would say yes. But maybe not common enough for you...

@JamesM you obviously have not been paying much attention to what the OP and some others wrote. In certain countries you HAVE to have winter tires when driving in winter conditions. Maybe OP already ordered and paid for them. Tesla is not delivering in time. Are you suggesting people should 'just' order an extra set of tires elsewhere? Or take the risk of an accident or fines? Or use a different car for the time being? You are being silly here.

@JamesM: Flagged inappropriate because I don't really think I need to be called silly by you.

Especially when you don't know what you talk about.

1) You can't, in Germany even using a tire needs to be approved for the very model of the car. So there is a significant effort involved, some cars don't get any approved for some time. Even had that with a Lexus model I drove. And you are not allowed to drive without in the winter months without loosing insurance. Storing of tires in garages in many cases are a violation or fire safety rules costing you your insurance coverage. And houses / garages are less common than condos because we build reals houses and not cheap stuff thrown over by every little higher wind (sorry but that is how it is, I lived in the US for 2 years)... with the downside that much less people can afford a house with a garage, even if they can afford a MS.
2) Why? The car can charge at 22 kW, it is a software bug or better, one size fits all solution because of a lack of localization. All that was asked for in the original post is for it to get fixed. I think that is reasonable and not, how you want to make it sound, like blasphemy.

Without pressure, Tesla will direct effort elsewhere, please remember they have a supply-, not demand-generation problem. Rightful Roadster owner complaints never fulfilled prove that this risk is real.

Your comment to me, no need to sue, but I don't think from reading your post that the effort explaining you the way our civil law works in customer protection is worthwhile.

In short: If I am not able to drive a car, or can't implement the use case planned for it because it doesn't charge at the promised rate for no good reason that Tesla being late in localizing the cars, is that my fault or Tesla's moving to a complex market that produces the best cars on the planet maybe to early?

You need to give me the right to be a customer, not a religious believer in Tesla. I don't mind your approach to following Tesla and don't call you silly for it, I expect the same from you if that should be a worthwhile exchange of opinions and ideas.

I just some winter tires MICHELIN X-ICE XI3 245/40R19XL

$1280 all in Toronto Canada


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