Read it and weep folks. We are all soon going to be taxed for the money states are loosing from us not buying gas http://plugineurope.com/2013/06/electric-car-owners-get-taxed-for-not-pa...
Gas taxes fund road maintenance. Have to pay for it somehow.
Just because we've adopted a new technology doesn't mean we are so special that we shouldn't have to pay for our fair share use of the roadways.
I really don't see anything wrong with it as long as the money is ACTUALLY going toward maintenance of the roads.
Since gov't revenues are so fungible and fiddle-able, the only way to be sure would be to see actual increase in road spending equal to the increased revenue.
Hmmm call me cynical but I don't trust politicians further than I can spit and here in California we have the most dishonest, tax loving politicians ever created. It would not be beyond them to say the the money goes to fixing the roads and then in reality it ends up paying for some politician's wet dream or worse. We have seen it happen time and time again.
You've also got one of the busiest highway systems on the face of the planet (if not THE busiest). How are those highways doing? Last time I checked, pretty well. So some of it must be getting to where it needs to go.
I tried out one of the toll roads down there last time I was there. Nice and smooth and very quiet. Is that the future of highways and interstates? I hope not but that's one way of paying for your use.
Bottom line is our highway system needs some serious upgrading. Have any bridges collapsed near you lately? We had one here in the NW just last month, on I-5 nonetheless. Yes, it was struck by an oversize truck and no one died (fortunately) but it wouldn't have been struck if it wasn't "functionally obsolete". There are many more in far worse shape than that one throughout the country.
If we want them fixed then we'd better be prepared to pay our fair share. Gas taxes are dwindling as ICE cars get more efficient and are going to take another serious hit now that there are EV's worth driving. What's the answer? Privatization? Taxes based on actual miles travelled? I don't know but it's going to change soon. It has to.
on I-5 nonetheless no less.
Mixing chopped used tires into the asphalt mix supposedly has big benefits for durability and traction. 2 birds with one bullet.
As I recall, the amount of wear of highways caused by passenger cars is somewhere between zero and negative -- essentially all the wear is from trucks. (For example, "parkways" -- the passenger car only highways found in a few states -- supposedly have pretty much zero wear of the pavement.) If that's anywhere near accurate, passenger cars are seriously overtaxed, and the lower tax paid by electric vehicles is about right. Note that electric vehicles are not tax free -- check your electric bill, a chunk of that is tax. And Brian H is right, it doesn't matter where the tax shows up, it's all just one big pot of dollars for the pigs at your state capitol to eat from.
goneskilan, I would really like to know the last time you dove Hwy 95 through New York and into New England. I know money is being paid in , but we are not getting the infrastructure we need. .Heavy trucks tear up our roads and pollute our air, and you want the electric cars to pay for this mess?
Thanks for the correction Brian H. ;-)
Mel - I've never driven on the East coast. I'll have to take your word for it. I can see how a freeway in the NE is probably not as in as good a condition as the ones in Southern California though. Especially with the weather you get.
I hadn't heard that passenger cars don't tear up roads. I'm sure the ones that insist on using studded tires in the winter do some damage.
Anyway, I didn't mean to make you think I was advocating for more EV taxes, just observing that one way or another the government will find a way to make EV drivers pay for their road use. Fair? Obviously up in the air there too. Then again, as my pops always told me "Life isn't fair".
goneskilan, you are absolutely right on the studded tires. I have not seen those used for 30 years, but that does not mean they are not being used..
We do not have a infrastructure that is capable of supporting the transportation of goods, therefore we rely on trucks. If we had a European style train system, we would have a road system that was almost workable
My only point was that trying to put all of that on the tiny electric car community would only hurt the electric car industry and not help our infrastructure.
Mel; If we had a European style train system, it would have 10X the rail miles, running everywhere. It's compact and convenient, not dispersed and sprawling.
So here is the truth to the matter.....Trucks ARE responsible for the wear and tear on our roads NOT cars and certainly not EVs. But I am sure there is some Truck Lobby group that is blowing the local and federal politicians to protect its members ( just like the North Carolina auto dealers group trying to "protect" the car dealers. That's my point. IF these jokers were really concerned about revenue to fix the roads then they would tax the people that own the vehicles that were damaging the road. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-09-10-3878428638_x.htm
Well, you pay now, or later. Taxing trucks more would hike the cost of goods sold, and come out of consumers' pockets. Same diff. But "a stitch in time"; keeping roads smooth and strong early is better and much cheaper than trying to fix them later.
As a Tesla owner but also the owner of several trucks that move goods, I hate when people start blaming the trucks for all the problems. Yes, they are heavier and do more damage, but we also pay a lot more in road taxes. Just based on the amount of fuel purchased (at 7mpg) we pay huge amounts and then some states charge additional surcharges when we do quarterly mileage tax returns (so every state we drive in gets a cut of what we spend).
Keep in mind, unless it came from your back yard, likely everything you own was on at least one truck. Raise the costs of operating them and it can only be passed on in higher prices.
Brian H, all I am trying to do is drive to New England without going to much out of the way. This requires driving through New York..we do now have the road system that you have on the Left coast.
Mel; Actually, I'm in BC, and the roads are pretty good. Can't speak for the US Left coast. Just saying that preventative maintenance is cheaper on all counts than major repair.
Brian H, most of these roards were constructed under the Eisenhower administration. I agree it is time for some maintenance.
If we are going to pay for road maintenance specifically cause we own EV's, then we should be granted carbon credits for specifically making the atmosphere cleaner. The smarter move for society would be to create a carbon tax on ICE owners to fill the gap, as this would further push them towards more sustainable EV's.
since the gap then would grow eventually again, we'll need more economical and longer lasting roads, but don't ask Elon to fix it as he is already busy :-)
Our EV proponents in Colorado worked out a good tax deal for us. We will pay $50. We will get a sticker to drive in HOV lanes. 70% of the money will go to road repair. 30% will go to charging stations around the State of Co. Good negotiations mean we will pay less than most states, and get some of the money for EVs. I'll pay with a smile.
I think the legislation is going to become increasingly hostile toward EVs because the oil industry has a lot to lose by increased adoption of electric cars. Electric cars will prevail in the end, just a question of when. In the meantime we have to keep fighting and promoting EVs. If the republicans get elected the ev tax credit will go away.
risingsun, If you are correct, why did George Bush put the tax credit on the books.
Politicians are congenitally unable to resist the temptation to shape behavior by selective taxing and tax-crediting.
That's because most people are congenitally opposed to changing their behavior in significant ways unless the change significantly affects their bank account.
So taxes are about 14% of the cost of gasoline.
Figure that will be recouped somewhere, once the EV conversion is well underway. Flat rate on license tabs (say, $200) or a tax on some mileage-dependent item such as tires.
Mel, I think ev's weren't seen as a threat to ICE's back in bush's terms, so tax credits were seen as kind of a way as being pro environment without being pro environment. You think people with billions to lose aren't going to try to shape legislation? The Republican Party is influenced more by oil industry than the Democratic Party. The electric companies are already starting to push back against solar.
risingsun, any idea why in North Carolina, all the democrats in the senate and the majority of democrats in the house are fighting to keep Tesla out of that state?
Republicans support the oil companies and couldn't care less about the environment, EVs, the roads etc. Democrats support free spending and taxation. ALL politicians (left and right) are evil dishonest, self-serving blowhards. They actually serve no useful purpose.
In the EU, they're reduced to powerlessness; all decisions are made by the unelected Commission. Good luck to them!
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