Cheap tricks in the battery swap presentation

I have great respect for Elon for his pioneering work.
Obviously one can't sell cars without turning into a car salesman.
Battery swap is a good idea but the show he put together is full of cheap tricks and cheating.

1. Tesla goes 300 mi. on a charge. At 20 mpg this is equivalent to 15 gallons for a comparable sedan. They should time 15 gallons conventional fueling.

2. The guy who was doing the conventional fueling walked out, arranged for payment, took receipt, walked back in, etc. None of this was involved at the Tesla demonstration. It will take shorter time if a crew is waiting for you at the gas station to do the fueling while you stay in the car.

3. I noticed that the pump pumped 13 gallons while the timer was at 56 sec. including the time to walk out, open the lid, activate the pump. They moved the camera away and never returned it back to the pump readings.

Who cares if the battery swap takes a minute or two longer than pumping fuel. What bothers me is the attitude at Tesla. If they are cheating for such stupid and simple things what else they are cheating about.

RIsquare, where do you live? Oregon? Everywhere else, you have to pump your own gas and do the credit card. Even in Oregon, where attendants do it, they have to take your card and run it.

I can't recall EVER getting in and out of a gas station in 90 seconds from pull up to drive away. 5 minutes is fast.

@DTSea - I agree. I don't think I ever filled my tank in less than 3 minutes. 2 Tesla battery swaps in the time it takes to fill the tank. Even if you add some kind of card swipe before the battery swap, it's still quicker than filling a tank. I loved the demonstration and I didn't think it was too gimmicky. I didn't like the financing gimmick where they counted the dollar value of my time spent pumping gas, but I thought this one was very reasonable.

The Audi did have a big tank- 27 gallons. But at 10 gal/minute, the legal limit (probably a static electricity dissipation safety rule), a NORMAL tank- 15 gallons- takes 90 seconds, plus the time to get out, do the credit card, put in the zip code, wait for authorization, etc, etc. 3 minutes easy.

+1 Dtsea

It takes longer then 4 minutes for most(like 90%) to fill up from empty, including getting out, putting pump in, and paying. Swap, you drive up, stop&swap, then drive off. Very much through and through a better customer experience.

Now, the cost... That's a different story given the 265 or less pack range...

2. Telsa bills you. Why should a credit card transaction be included in the demo. Gas stations take your money first before you can fill up.

I think the video was a fair comparison. The final total was about 23 gallons I think and $99 was visible. That might have been necessary for them to get 2 cars battery swapped, which was his goal.

But for a 1 vs 1 demo, the first car was battery swapped in 90 seconds, so it was clearly a win for Tesla 1 vs 1. The flow rate of a fast gas station is about 10 gallons per minute. My Prius has a small tank and would have been about 60-90 seconds also just for pure pumping time.

The Tesla concept is that if you pull into a swap station, your credit card and all vehicle info is already in the Tesla database. Their system can handle all of the details automatically. You never get out of your car. Swap and go. 90 seconds. It works.

It is another debate about the issue of food, drinks, bathroom, stretch your legs. My issue with the swap concept is that I actually WANT to get out of my car for a break after driving 3 hours.

Totally Ridiculous POST!, this a ridiculous post....first, rarely these days gas attendants would fill your gas for u...u have to fill it yourself almost everywhere.....even if it was done by a gas attendants, the procedure would been about the same; so it would have taken about the same time.....about 4 minutes is what usually takes to fill a gas as shown in the demonstration....the only thing tricky is ur totally illogical post which one would probably expect from a business man in the oil or ICE car industry..........

The whole point is that now if I am in a hurry (say going from Los Angeles to San Francisco or San Diego) I have the option of a fast battery swap that takes less than the time to fill gas (it has to be a fully automatic drive through process though, which I can see possible from the demonstration yesterday). Most people will rarely need this option).

(Although Elon did not mention this specifically, I am assuming I get MY OWN battery pack on the way back but that would take some juggling of battery packs that may add extra time).

@RIsquare All I can do is laugh.

Forget about getting your own battery pack back. This would be a logistic nightmare. Which raises another legitimate question. Do folks who own the car (not lease) want to get random batteries. As far as I understand it all batteries are not the same. The ones that you charge slowly last longer. People who lease can't care less but those who own is a different story.

Another point from the gas fill up side, who ever actually runs their car to empty? Most people that I know fill up at 1/4 or so.

That being said, I thought it was a pretty fair comparison. It's true that you have to stop and get out and run your card.

Just wanted to add that point.

@ RIsquare, I'm surprised at your post. I would be shocked if you had to swipe a credit card or get out of your car at a Tesla station. Everything will happen electronically and you will have a CC on file with Tesla for auto billing. I believe the comparison is fair. Buy a Tesla and you don't even have to get out of your car to swap... anything else is a compromise.

The car at the gas station has a similar range and performance to the Model S, how is that not a fair comparison? Why should the comparison be only at 20 mpg, as you say? That is not a good variable. With Model S you are buying a specific range and performance, so you compare to other similarly classed vehicles.

I know of nowhere except in Oregon where the government forces you to use a gas station attendant. What gas station has a full crew waiting for you? LOL

Your last point, I completely don't understand. The camera clearly showed the final figures after the fill-up. Yes, the ICE vehicle had a 20 or so gallon tank to fill, but again, we are comparing apples to apples vehicles with similar performance and range. We are not comparing the Model S to a Prius with a 10 gallon tank.


Before this demo, the ICE proponents were saying it takes too long to charge an electric car.

After the demo, they are complaining about the insignificant details of the side-by-side comparison.

I think they are missing the main point. The point is the time to charge an EV (Tesla in this case) will no longer be an issue!

@RIsquare....dude your are proving to be a giant TROLL from the good old highly subsidized carbon industry....if robots can paint your car with precision, doing a very simple shelving and unshelving procedure of battery packs is piece of might add few seconds to the whole operation but it would still be quicker that filling ur carbon mobile.................

Tesla fans see a Jetsons future, people like RLsquare look ahead and see the Flintstones.

@AmpedRealtor - NJ also requires you to use an attendant to pump your gas. This actually makes the whole process take a lot longer, because they're often busy helping other customers, and you have to wait for them to come pump your gas, then when it's done, wait for them to come back, finish the card swipe, sign, then go. It's a much slower process than most states. In no state would filling a gas tank be under 90 seconds.

The biggest thing to me is, whatever car you're talking about, if it's not a Tesla, it's inferior. The ability to recharge the best car ever (just ask Consumer Reports) in the time it takes to fill any competitor just took away the last remaining reason anyone should consider any other car(if they can afford a Tesla.) I'm already sold on Tesla, but the idea was to convince the others who have hesitated. This should help.

I actually noticed another inaccuracy to keep in mind:

The Gas station at the end showed $99 for the fill up.

Nearly all gas stations in the Bay Area stop at $75. You have to re-run your credit card.

When I fill up my 40 gal Ford Excursion Diesel, it takes me 3 card swipes (two different cards, they only allow two swipes per) and almost 10 minutes.

OTOH, this then gives me almost 700 miles of range.

Still - I've started to rely on the MS for roadtrips more and more.

@Cnkurze This wasn't in the Bay Area, it was LA...

My wifes Yaris only has a 12 gallon tank, at 10 gallons per minute or whatever, it would take 1 minute and 12 seconds just to pump... if you add like 10 seconds for credit swipe/authentication, 5 seconds to unscrew gas cap, its about on par with a small tanked car...

Its incredibly comparable, and eliminates the stigma associated with "filling up" an electric car. That is all that matters, and it accomplishes the goal of Battery Swapping.

I don't really see it being an incredibly in demand process though.

Also, if you don't have to get out of your car, look how much safer it will be. Who likes filling up at 3AM? keep your own battery. just return the swapped one back and get your OWN after the trip. Please do some research before posting. Even trolls do some research. stop wasting people's time. typed in 90 seconds.

"typed in 90 seconds." :-)

Quibble, quibble, quibble. Do you have no idea what is important?

You can swap the battery in 90 seconds!

You can swap the battery in 90 seconds!

You can swap the battery in 90 seconds!

Everything else is minor details that only silly people would even bother mentioning.

Oh, yes, and I forgot to say, "Nitpicks are for nitwits."

Are you from New Jersey? That is the only state I know of where they believe the general public is not capable of pumping gas. They would probably have somebody plug in your tesla for you too.

The original poster maybe a conventional car sales man or it is from a dealership.

Their time is numbered.

And those mechanics and dealerships who have been cheating the general public for the services will end soon. Overcharging and unnecessary parts changing were their cash cows.

Those mechanics would scare the hell out of innocent people who have no knowledge about car mechanics to replace parts unnecessarily. Now the time has come.

@jamestily - Not just NJ, Oregon too.

Especially those conventional dealerships exploit women drivers. Tactics like, what if you break down on the high way? Or you are driving at night and break down, what would you do? So, it is better to replace the parts so on...

EVs doesn't have many parts to fool people.

I compare a Car mechanic and Dealership to a Doctor and a Hospital. Both of them scare people for their own monetary benefits.

Unless I've missed it in another post, I haven't seen anyone comment on the fact that, while the battery swap takes only 90 sec (a good argument could be made that this is just barely twice as fast as a comparable tank fill), given the range of the typical ICE vs the model S, you would have to stop to swap twice as many times as you would have to stop at a gas station. i don't see the time saving on a long road trip.
I'm all in as far as my Model S goes, but I'm just saying....

+1@ jchangy
@satyrias - poor analogy at best regarding doctors and hospitals.

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