Fora

WORDT DEEL VAN DE COMMUNITY
REGISTREERINLOGGEN

Warranty?

Got my DocuSign documents yesterday, and the language about the warranty (or lack thereof) concerned me. Sent Tesla an email but haven't heard back and I'd like to complete my order tomorrow. Anyone else have concerns, and have those concerns been addressed? Any attorneys out there who can reassure me? Sure, this whole proposition is a bit of a leap of faith, but I didn't expect I'd have to commit to paying $85,000 with no guarantee whatsoever that any problems would be fixed.

It's there in the My Tesla "Downlad Manuals & Warranty" link...

https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/ms_vehi...

This is the biggest problem for me too... the warranty appears very vague with respect to batterie life and degenerative properties. I called and spoke with a guy who further confused me... I finally asked them to email me the warranty in black and white so I could read it. I'm awaiting this email to confirm it is the same document referenced above. The above document alerts me with the text, "The decision of whether to repair or replace a part or to use a new or
remanufactured part will be made by Tesla, in its sole discretion." If I have a new car... I want new parts!

What does this mean: (referenced from the above link on warranty)
"All replaced parts or other components are the exclusive property of Tesla unless otherwise provided under applicable law"

So, if they replace a part... I no longer own that part? So at some point, when they have replaced enough parts does it become their property entirely?

Do I still have to pay taxes for it?

@wile69

Um, no. That is just not what that means at all. It means the (defective) parts they remove from your car to replace they keep. This is typical for all vehicles (often so they can analyze why the part failed as an ongoing engineering/manufacturing quality control measure.)

@wile69 - In many (most?) states when you take a car in for service, you have the right to ask for the defective/replaced part back since you own it as well as the new part you paid for. It's one way you can help make sure a repair shop isn't swindling you by replacing something that didn't need it. What Tesla means is that if it's replaced under warranty, since you didn't pay for the new part, they're going to take the old part back as a swap (possibly for failure analysis or re-manufacturing) to help offset the cost of the repair. It is the replaced part they claim ownership of, not the replacement part.

Battery life seems to be un warrantied:

"The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or
power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time
or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this New
Vehicle Limited Warranty"

So, if I read between the lines... they are absolved of any batterie / range problems?
:(

I just sent the following question to a Tesla rep.:
Hi Luke,
Thanks for the info, so am I reading the Battery Warranty correctly:

Tesla doesn't cover degradation at all and doesn't even define what
degradation we might expect?

A sample scenario: Let's say I buy my Model X and take it home.
X amount of time passes (1 day or 4 years doesn't matter) and now let's
just say, I'm getting 75% of the range I got when it was brand new...
Let's further specify: I drive less than 10K miles per year, and within
the temps, etc. Let's just say, I fullfil what you all call "Normal" driving
(which isn't defined anywhere.) What would Tesla do for my problem?

From the warranty I can't tell at all what Tesla would do - it sounds like NOTHING.
"Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this New
Vehicle Limited Warranty"

Please advise,
Alex.

"Battery Limited Warranty
Subject to the exclusions and limitations described in this New Vehicle
Limited Warranty, the Battery Limited Warranty covers the repair or
replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship
of the vehicle’s lithium-ion battery (“Battery”) manufactured or supplied by
Tesla that occur under normal use for a period of 8 years or for the miles
specified below for your vehicle’s Battery type, whichever comes first:
• 40 kWh - 100,000 miles (160,000 km)
• 60 kWh - 125,000 miles (200,000 km)
• 85 kWh - unlimited miles/km
The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or
power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time
or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this New
Vehicle Limited Warranty. See your owner documentation for important
information on how to maximize the life and capacity of the Battery

@cschock and @ Geek EV

""All replaced parts or other components are the exclusive property of Tesla unless otherwise provided under applicable law"

Does not say the old part - it say's the "Replacement" (new part) is their property.
The "Replacement" part is now part of my car... and is their property.

I'm just reading the text... as it is written the part that they "Replaced" is the part that they now own.

A lawyer would agree with me, as this is written, that the replacement part is now owned by Tesla.

I called again and asked about the battery warranty... and the gentleman I spoke with said, well, if you end up getting 70% range we would help you with that - I asked for that in writing. I'm still waiting.

Regardless of your sense of the usual sense of the phrasing, the legal effect is as cs and GEV say. A swap.

IMO:
Usage and time are not covered. Manufacturing defects (faster than usual degradation due to battery flaws) are covered, in proportion to their effect (i.e., not an all-or-nothing deal). LiIon industry standard is that "end of service life" occurs at 70% capacity, which is guaranteed (given 12.5K or annual if sooner) checks, not to occur before sooner of 100k or 8 yrs. So you get a credit of some percent of replacement cost, depending on how much the battery "falls short". It is reported and usual that there's a 100% engineering margin "built in", and that engineers/designers at TM actually expect 85% capacity left in those periods, or 16 yrs to hit 70%, but those are TM's safety margins, not the owner's.

In effect, TM is putting its reputation and future on the line and saying "Trust us to treat you honorably and honestly." Indeed, there isn't much alternative, as there's no objective external test that can be appealed to if you refuse to trust them. The warranty is written in part to protect them against frivolous or unreasonable claims.

The above is based on an extensive phone conversation with Walter at Ownership, some weeks ago. Except for the "engineering safety margin". :)

Edit;
I should have said "which is expected (given ..." not "guaranteed".

The effect is about the same, since it would be possible to establish that a battery which failed to meet those "industry standards", given routine servicing, was being degraded by more than time or use (such as flaws or abuse like routine or excessive max charging). Remember that there are internal logs that can be accessed to show "abuse", and distinguish it from normal "use".


X Deutschland Site Besuchen