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200.000km on a Roadster

Hello , im one future owner of the Model S ... last week we saw the first tesla roadster to do the 200.000km . I like to know some feed back from the owner of that Roadster :) the range , any problems, etc...

Many thxs

See this thread: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/8449-Who-s-driven-200-000-KMs-(125-000-miles)

But bear in mind that the Roadster was a hand-built car, not an assembly line produced car, so the main commonalities are the programming, motor, and drivetrain, which can be expected to be better in the Model S and X.

If you know German, you may want to read this article:
http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/200-000-kilometer-mit-dem-elektroauto...

Anybody know how much his range dropped?

30%

Range left 70% (just to be clear that "30%" doesn't mean that).

Keithz - anybody know how much is range dropped?
Brian H - 30%
Timo - Range left 70% (just to be clear that "30%" doesn't mean that).

Huh?

It lost 30% of it's range, it still has 70%.

;)
Teo & ggr;
Timo is, he believes, "scary smart", so the simple is incomprehensible.
;(

:D

Actually, when I put up that 'simple' response, I wondered if anyone would quibble!

Apparently "simple" response is never quite as simple as it feels to one that writes it. I thought I was making it clearer but apparently I caused more confusion than clarity.

One more try: 70% of the initial battery capacity is still there after 200k miles. 100-70=30 so 30% of the initial capacity is gone.

Thxs guys...70% after 200.000km is very good . i has thinking that it has less range...in my case , if i ever pass the 200.000km its has to pass 8 years or more.

It has take me 103 months to put on 220,000km. However, I expect that the Model S will rack up more miles because it will cost $0.016/km vs. $0.036/km ($0.026/mi vs. $0.058/mi).

jerry;
.058¢/mi? What are you driving, and where? If you get 50mpg that means you're getting gas (diesel?) at $2.90/gal. If you get 25 mpg then you're paying $1.45/gal.

Correction, that should be "5.8¢/mi", of course.

Oh -- are you talking about your current Roadster?

Brian,

I'm driving a 2004 Prius. My commute is in the Dallas area, but about 25% of my miles are vacation miles to various places.

Don't have current Roadster :-( but I do have a Model S reservation.

When I only get 50 mpg, I check the tires for nails.

2004 Prius MPG from the logbook. (Complete years only):
2003-2004 -- 50.8 mpg 17,628 miles
2005 -- 52.6 mpg 14,688 miles
2006 -- 56.3 mpg 16,174 miles
2007 -- 57.3 mpg 18,384 miles
2008 -- 59.9 mpg 21,755 miles
2009 -- 61.4 mpg 16,177 miles
2010 -- 65.2 mpg 12,134 miles
2011 -- 66.9 mpg 11,272 miles

2012:
DATE__________ODO____INC_____AVG
01/07/12____128603____481____56.6 (4.2)
-- 13 F here
01/12/12____129042____438____52.7 (4.5)
01/15/12____129420____378____50.3 (4.7)
01/20/12____129094____481____56.2 (4.2)
--- Trip to NE ends here
01/31/12____130503____600____69.8 (3.4)
02/23/12____131050____546____69.4 (3.4)
03/07/12____131679____629____72.2 (3.3)
03/23/12____132319____638____71.3 (3.3)
04/12/12____132987____668____74.0 (3.2)
05/02/12____133647____659____74.3 (3.2)
05/18/12____134272____624____73.4 (3.2)
--- flat tire here

jerry - Just a comment on your Prius mileage: Wow! Are you sure you don't have a calculation error somewhere? I'm amazed that your mileage has shown a continuous improvement every year. Granted, you probably get better at driving the Prius each year, but your steady improvement from 52.6 mpg in 2005 to 66.9 mpg in 2011 is nothing short of phenomenal! (And then it gets even better in 2012, all the way up to 73 mpg!) How do you do that?!?

I, too, keep extensive vehicle log books (occupational hazard of being an engineer, I'm afraid). I've got an '06 Prius and an '07 Prius (both of which I bought new), each of which now has about 85,000 miles on it. They've gotten very similar fuel efficiency, about 48 mpg. When we're very careful, we can nurse them up to about 50, maybe even 51 mpg, but I've hardly gotten anything better on either vehicle under normal city/freeway driving conditions. I have seen a definite effect of tire pressure, consequently I keep them pretty close to factory spec. Over 5-6 years now, I haven't seen a seasonal fluctuation in the Prius economy, but there's been a very slight degradation in fuel economy since they were new - probably only on the order of 1 mpg, and there's too much statistical noise in the data to state that with much confidence.

Interestingly, we've noticed that the '06 does much better in city driving than on the freeway, whereas the '07 doesn't do as well in city driving (as compared to the '06) but better on the freeway - net difference is nil, but that means we choose the '07 for long trips, and the '06 for non-work-related in-town running around.

On the other hand, I've got a friend who bought a '05 Prius new, and he's never gotten better than about 35-40 mpg, and he's very careful in how he drives it. (I can't get that poor mileage if I try!) He's had it back to the dealer a number of times complaining about it not "measuring up." Every time, they test everything out and say "Sorry, everything's within nominal limits." So my impression is some Prius's work really great, and some not so much. Maybe you're one of the really lucky ones, I'm just in the middle of the pack, and he got a lemon.

PS I've had a Tesla Roadster 2.5 (#1014) for 19 months now, and I just hit 20,000 miles. I've seen maybe a 4% reduction in available range to date. It's a barely distinguishable signal amidst the statistical noise, but I think it's real. (Occasional firmware updates that affect its range reporting, and possible seasonal fluctuation, also obfuscate the matter somewhat.) On the other hand, living in the greater Phoenix area I've observed a huge seasonal fluctuation in kW/mile. Last summer I ran about 550 Wh/mile (charge to wheel), whereas both winters I've had the Roadster it ran as efficiently as 340 Wh/mile. I'm happy to say, however, that with a 5 kW solar array on my house, I've generated about 2x the daily energy I need to power the Roadster during the summer, whereas in the winters (between the shorter days but better Roadster efficiency), the panels' production and vehicle's usage run about neck-and-neck. (Gross energy production from my panels since the Roadster was new now stands at 12,460 kWh, and the Roadster has sucked only 7,870 kWh from the wall. So I'm getting farther ahead all the time!)

BTW, if you do the math (and I'm comparing against my lousy 48 mpg Prius's), that means my summer Roadster mileage is like paying $1.74/gal, and my winter Roadster mileage is like paying only $1.08/gal. Our gas prices haven't been quite that good. :-)

redsnapper-

1. Are you sure you don't have a calculation error somewhere

I have a spreadsheet that has a lot more detail than I've posted. I also keep a manual logbook that I use to transfer the numbers to Numbers. I have several checks (for example there is a column for the "incremental miles" and another column for the odometer reading. Right now there is 172 miles difference between the two columns because the incremental column is in "whole miles". 172/134272 = 0.00128 about 1/10th of a percent. There are other checks and balances as well.

2. How do you do that

The first year can probably be put down to "break-in". After that, better tires (I'm kind of picky about tires), and better driving. In December 2011 the office changed locations so the commute is five miles longer one way (25 miles vs 20 miles). Before that the commute didn't change for the entire time I have had the Prius so I've had a lot of practice driving the same route. In addition in 9/2007 I started using the Scangauge to supplement the built in instrumentation.

3. Interestingly, we've noticed that the '06 does much better in city driving than on the freeway, whereas the '07 doesn't do as well in city driving (as compared to the '06) but better on the freeway

That seems really odd considering the lack of difference between the two cars. My guess here is that the alignment is less than idea. No, don't take it back to the dealer. They aren't good on alignments (had one that took half the tread off a set of tires in about four weeks that the dealer said was perfect. Take it to a reliable frame shop and get a spot-on alignment. Here are the specs (as far as I know 2004-2009 all have the same specs:

Model:.........................04.Prius........03.Prius

Front:

Tread*.mm.(in.)...............1505.(59.3)....1480.(58.3)
Front.Wheel.Caster*.degrees........3'.10".........1'.02"
Alignment.Camber*.degrees.........-0'.35"........-1'.26"
Toe-in*.mm.(in.).................0.(0.00).......1.(0.04)
King.Pin.Inclination*.degrees.....12'.35".........9'.52"

Rear:

Rear.Wheel.Tread*.mm.(in.).....1480.(58.3)...1478.(58.2)
Alignment.Camber*.degrees...........1'.30"...........--
Toe-in*.mm.(in.)..................3.(0.12)......1.(0.04)
-------
*: Unloaded Vehicle Condition

Note that a good alignment should cost around $250. A $89 dollar alignment is like a $20 tune-up--if you're lucky they didn't do any damage.

4. On the other hand, I've got a friend who bought a '05 Prius new, and he's never gotten better than about 35-40 mpg

If you are getting that kind of mpg the reasons are likely:

1. Short trips. The Prius never gets a chance to warm up.

2. Over 90 mph (actually that should be about 45 mpg).

3. Low tire pressure or wrong tires. Some tires have very high rolling resistance. It's possible to get a 10 mpg difference between tires.

4. Zero or lower temperatures. The Prius doesn't produce a lot of excess heat and the engine and cat cool of very quickly. There are ways to mitigate this.

5. Not understanding how the Prius works. (You can give a person a Stradivarius but that won't make them a virtuoso). Most people, before they get educated, think that if you use EV mode a lot you'll maximize mpg. That's a mistake. The Prius, even the PiP, is primarily a gas car. It gets it's good mpg because the engine is sized for steady state driving rather than for acceleration. The motor/generators and battery are there to provide acceleration and to allow the engine to shut down when there is very low power demand. Using EV mode just makes the gas engine run more. I've written more about this in a thread in the Model S category. I'll look it up and post the link in a follow up post.

jerry;
Yes, I see that since the Prius isn't a PEV, the key is managing the gas-engine-generator. Interesting!

Even the PiP isn't really a PEV (in my opinion). The extra batteries are there primarily so you can use them when you know using the engine would be inefficient (those short trips to the store for example)

Painful nonsense.


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