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For the amount of money we are paying, we should be getting

This is far and away the single statement that kills me every time I come on these forums. I can't possibly be the only one. I'm not really complaining, just trying to put things in perspective here. I'm sure I will get a lot of heat from people who obviously vehemently disagree with me but c'mon... It's almost like you think that just because you are opening up your wallets, the world should be handed to you.

For the amount of money we are paying, we are getting the car of the future. A car that has been mediocre at best when done by the major auto manufacturers or maybe even purposefully quashed by oil companies (shout out to the conspiracy theorists!). For 100K, you get to receive the fruits of some of our country's top engineers and inventors. A product that was almost a decade in the making and hundreds of millions in research and development. A car that outshines top performance and exotic cars (note I left off luxury though a case could be made). A real world product that, to be honest with you, I never believed would actually make it. And here I sit with an empty driveway, regretful of the fact that I did not believe in Elon and Tesla earlier (but I digress...)

Here it is... the car of the future... and you have the gall to come on to these forums and complain about what? parking sensors? floor mats? sun visors that don't have VANITY mirrors in them (note my emphasis)? For 100K, I should have rocket launchers built into my car. And lasers. C'mon Tesla, I'm practically throwing my bank account at you and you can't do that for me? But seriously. Take a step back and just think about it for a minute. This is, by far, the best car I have ever (test) driven. Honestly, I can't believe that I've become so enthused by a single car. I wasn't even a car person and now all I can think about is how much more fun my trips would be if I was driving a Tesla. And I know I'm not alone here - people here with thousands of miles on their car and still grinning like idiots when they mash the accelerator pedal.

You are on the forefront of car technology by being here and buying the car. And for that, I thank you. And my future kids thank you. And their kids. And so forth

Today I took a naysayer Indian engineer friend for a drive to an appointment. I asked him to name his favorite singer from India while I typed it into Slacker search. Slacker played his signer and many similar vocalists from India. At the end of our trip he was wondering if his new Lexus could do the same. He asked me how much it costs to use the superchargers--nothing, how much gas will the Lexus use on a trip to San Francisco I replied. At the end of our drive he was a convert. Tesla may not have all the features of Mercedes or be perfect, but the car is a total blast.

dborn;
minus how much egregious Aus. import duty? (Not that Aus. makes any cars of its own ...)

tork;
+1
But... one quibble. Its a goose pedal #33.

For the delivery and service comments: Tesla was the best on the planet at those -- at low volumes. But it hasn't scaled. Not surprising, multiplying volume per month by about 30 over the course of two or three months. That rate of personnel expansion is almost beyond comprehension or manageability. If TM is now at or near its target rate for, say, the rest of the year, it may catch up. But even that will be a Hurculean task.

PS
Imagine doubling your company's staff ... 5x in the course of one quarter. Then take a stiff one. You'll need it.

@brianh - Aus does make cars - GM makes as does Ford. Our tax component is 5% then another 10% followed by another approx 5%. Add shipping and insurance. Still well North of 100000!!

Also, because our market is small, most imports come fully loaded with minimal options.

Import duties quoted on the Roadster were on the order of 100%, IIRC. Those you quoted sound like other taxes.

I agree with Tork, all to often those whining for X feature just sound like entitled twat donkeys to me. Some do have legitamite concerns, but most are just bellyaching.

The roadster was double the price in Australia compared to the USA. $210000.00 Aussie dollars! One contributor was the luxury car tax of 33% applied after the value of 70000 odd dollars. The remainder? God knows, but I assume Tesla profiteering on the international market.

Vawlkus | January 9, 2013

I agree with Tork, all to often those whining for X feature just sound like entitled twat donkeys to me. Some do have legitamite concerns, but most are just bellyaching.

Well I think you're WAY off base and naive to think that Lexus, BMW, etc. are leaving these features off their inevitable competitors to the Model S. The great majority of "twat donkeys" are following through with their purchase regardless, but they are using this forum to express their desire to have these features added if it can be done via a software update. Many user requests have been incorporated this way already. It is a democratic and useful process.

Adding these features into the Model S and future models is in TM's best interest, not just us "twat donkeys".

BTW - it's "too" and "legitimate".

give me a break - the OP is a cool-aid drinker. There are many out there. I'm not and probably a better example of the target demo than most - mercedes driver for 13 years, able to purchase pretty much any car I want (a few decades and lots of hard work behind that statement)and I loved the idea of the advantages of electric from not sending more money to people who want to kill us to cleaner emissions, to less spending needed on military, etc. Guess what - even with all that, I still wanted a car that would compare favorably to what I would consider as a replacement new car - and that means a certain amount of style, luxury, and fit and finish - as well as the proper balance of economy and performance.

Model S came pretty close to being as good as the competition ex the power train - but I would not have bought the car at the price if it was not electric. I'm a happy Signature owner for sure - but there have been some shortcomings that need and deserve to be addressed. Am I upset that these shortcomings exist? not to the point of feeling I got taken in any way. Do I think at the price that Tesla should be able to deliver a better vehicle and better experience? absolutely. That doesn't make me a whiner, it makes me want the business to succeed. But anyone who thinks that all "complaints" are the naggings of spoiled children does not understand the concepts of the value of money, or the value of customer feedback to a business.

Tesla has already listened to many - to their credit and benefit. Can they do better? Sure. And how do they find out how they can do better? By listening to people criticize constructively - and sometimes even just the gripes. Any business owner will tell you that listening to and addressing complaints is a big part of success and anyone who doesn't understand that has never run a sucessful business.

dborn;
Then you're full of it. ALL the extra, aside from freight, is your taxes. Ask GB if you don't believe me. Your insinuations and accusations are offensive.

Tork - Sure I agree with you, and the more money I might have the more I would tend to agree. However, to play devil's advocate, there is the relative sense of value for money. I opine the more $ one may have the more elastic the definition of value may be. A multimillionaire with the consciousness expressed by most on these forums would totally agree with you. A person of considerably less means likely would not agree. One person's $100+K for an new car is another person's life savings and for that the Tesla right now is not a reality. We 'rich' need to lead the way for this to truly be, as Tork says, "Here it is... the car of the future..."

@GAS
How is that relevant? I stated I agree with Tork, and added my opinion. How is saying that people are following through on purchases pertinent?

People are complaining about features they KNEW they weren't going to get, some threatening to cancel their orders. That to me is immature temper tantrums like my young nephews throw. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but it's still how I perceive such complaints, and still my opinion of them.

@Your BTW
Tell Apple that, I'm sick and tired of trying to teach their autocorrect proper spelling.

I share a lot of these concerns, and started a related but private thread called "On One Hand/On the Other Hand."

I do think it's all going to work out great....

Richard

FOR THE AMOUNT OF MONEY WE ARE PAYING, WE SHOULD BE GETTING...........

a car which compares/competes/outshines on ALL FRONTS with similar priced ICE Luxury cars.

That includes 'luxury gizmo's', like parking sensors,etc and Service/Reliability

tork, well said. +1 for me. My S is coming in Feb. and although I didn't spend 100K (60KW for less than 80K). I gave up my order of BMW 5-series and then the Lexus hybrid for the S and still wonder if I made the right choice. The "Car of the Future" and Car of the Year" always encourage me to stay put. I read a lot of Tesla and Tesla Motor Club forums lately and wonder why people are debating about Center Console, vanity mirrors and the like or the lack of. Some people said this is Elon's toy car but I wonder does he listen to customers' complaints and their feedback? I do hope so. I know one thing, as soon as my S delivered, I'll be one of the advocates for Tesla and I hope Elon is listening and I can assure him there are many S owners out there and willing to be Tesla's advocate for years to come. So Elon, please listen to your customers, this is a premium sedan, do not neglect all the basic features and technology of a premium sedan and keep improving what we have. Many of us are also your stock holders and wish Tesla a successful company for many years to come.

FOR THE AMOUNT OF MONEY WE ARE PAYING, WE SHOULD BE GETTING...........

Exactly what we are getting

"For the amount of money we are paying we should be getting" (at a minimum) a certain level of service, regardless of expectations of what the car itself has on it.

I own a Nissan. When I take the car in for service at the Nissan dealer, I get a certain level of service and it is within my expectations. I also own a Lexus. I can tell you with certainty that anyone would be able to tell the difference between the level of service you get at the Lexus place and the level you get at the Nissan dealer.

TM needs to be sure that their customers all get "lexus" treatment at every contact, not "nissan" treatment. While I understand the difficulty in providing that level of service with new employees, it is still of paramount importance that they deliver on that expectation.

@ vouteb +1. @Edneff +1. @BrianH. Pull your head in, this is a business not a fan club. There is something called value for money. My reasons for buying? Exactly the same as Charged_Up. Hate supporting my enemies. Every product sold in Australia includes tax in its price by law. The price you see is what you pay. Quite fair to compare one car to another. That is all this is, a car with a different propulsion system.

I wonder if the same people who constantly complain about TM would feel the same way after handing over $100K for a sub-standard ICE MB, BMW, etc? Somehow I think they wouldn't and if they did it would be secretly

NO FLOOR MATS!...........COME ON Elon!

=)

Let me just say this. I was not referencing anything to do with Tesla customer service or delivery. Nor was I making excuses for Tesla. Of course they can do better. Chalk it up to growing pains, obviously. I'm not saying that you can just say "oh, that's just growing pains" and let Tesla slide on by. But, on the other hand, if you thought that Tesla was going to nail it 100% from production of the car from scratch (pretty much) all the way to delivery, well then you really have quite an unrealistic view of the world and the way that it works.

You realize that Tesla has hired some amazing personnel for the job, right? First you have Franz who designed the car. Personally, I think he nailed it, but that's just my own opinion on aesthetics. Then you have the obvious superstars Elon (who many have compared to the late Steve Jobs) and George (you probably know as the guru behind the wildly successful apple stores). Then you have Gilbert (met him in that megafactories video) who led manufacturing for Toyota or something like that. I don't know him but his resume looks pretty darn impressive. In any case, my point is this - you bring all these "superstars" (if you will) together with tons of experience in their former jobs and you still can't nail it down 100%? If anything, I think it's indicative of the herculean task that Tesla is undertaking.

So go ahead, tell me that I drank the kool-aid. Tell me that I'm a fanboy. I'm not, by the way - the day I get my car, I will likely leave this forum without a look back. I'm a stock holder myself and of course I realize that it's a business. I want Tesla to be just as successful as you do, because if they win, I win. But you missed the entire point. DJP (above) said it perfectly. For the amount of money we are paying, we should be getting exactly what we are getting. I am not disputing that the car could be better. Would I enjoy parking sensors? Adaptive cruise control? Grab handles? Sure I would. I've never had two out of the three but I can imagine how it would augment my driving experience. On the other hand, Tesla never said that they were going to be included to begin with. And even though you may call these lack of amenities "dealbreakers," I believe/hope that you will probably go through with your purchase anyway. Because the car speaks for itself, it's awesome. And if they truly are dealbreakers, well then perhaps you should wait for Model S 2.0. Because even though you may be so quick to be critical of Tesla for lack of communication, I don't have a doubt in my mind that they are listening and taking notes.

Back to my original intent. I remember some guy came on here a while ago and said something along the lines of "for x amount of dollars, I DESERVE y." I don't remember what exactly x and y were, but this is the type of attitude that I was addressing. Some other poster had beat me to the punch, stating that he didn't DESERVE anything. Again, just because your wallet is wide open doesn't mean the world is yours. The only people that really deserve anything are the people at Tesla. Why? Because they built the darn thing. We, on the other hand, are just the end consumers. Tesla is offering a product for a specified sum of money. Take it or leave it. If you want your perfect car with all the doodads that you want, then perhaps you should be starting up your own car company. Good luck though. Because if Tesla is making some missteps along the way, I am certain that you will do no better.

@tork, "So go ahead, tell me that I drank the kool-aid. Tell me that I'm a fanboy. I'm not, by the way - the day I get my car, I will likely leave this forum without a look back."

I have my car and I'm back here still, I find it helpful to share and get information about the car after purchasing. I don't think you will disappear altogether... ;)

Heck, I'm still looking for reputable installers for things, idea's for rear floor mats, advice on Homelink, share stories of being on the road in my Model S... it doesn't end at delivery, it's just a sweeter forum after the fact because your no longer waiting on pins and needles! :D

Vawlkus | January 9, 2013

I agree with Tork, all to often those whining for X feature just sound like entitled twat donkeys to me. Some do have legitamite concerns, but most are just bellyaching.

@GAS
How is that relevant? I stated I agree with Tork, and added my opinion. How is saying that people are following through on purchases pertinent?

People are complaining about features they KNEW they weren't going to get, some threatening to cancel their orders. That to me is immature temper tantrums like my young nephews throw. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but it's still how I perceive such complaints, and still my opinion of them.

Well I disagree. Most of the posts I've read were by sincere people making relevant points. You post sounds like the temper tantrum to me.

Lest anyone misconstrue what I said, I love the concept, the car and the company. I am willing to put up with a few inconveniences to own this vehicle. I understand that growing pains are part of the deal. But I do expect TM to be correspondingly appreciative of my business and to try very hard to set a high service standard. Anything else and they will have a hard time getting return, or even new customers in the long run. Full disclosure: my experience with TM is very limited-- I am finalizing my configuration this week. I have high expectations, and I think they will be satisfied or exceeded.

As I said elsewhere, TM nailed it from design to delivery. At the lower level of production; it hasn't "scaled". Yet. Try multiplying your company's output (keeping the same staff/client ratio, and training level) 5x in one quarter! (5 doublings = 32x). Unthinkably difficult. If they've caught up the slack in a year's time they'll have completed a Herculean task.

typo: Try doubling your company's output ...


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