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Charging system

Hi all. I'm new to this forum so this may be a topic already covered and if so, I apologize.
It's a given, as far as I'm concerned, that these Tesla automobiles are far ahead of the electric car game. However, I have a small point to make in regard to charging one of these awesome machines; with such advanced electronic and mechanical technology displayed here, why is there not an on-board charging system applied to these vehicles? Could the existing grill area not have a working purpose such as an air dam to supply a concentrated flow of air for a fan that would turn a shaft in a ratio reduced gear box that would in turn, spin a generator that produces regulated voltage to charge the batteries and keep them charged. The mileage of the vehicle would be unlimited. Is this too simple?
Regards

Ughhh how many times are people going to start a thread with their "perpetual motion" ideas.

Sorry man, but it takes energy to make energy, and you get loss.

Putting in a turbine will increase drag, which in turn DECREASES range more than it produces.

The ONLY energy returning idea that makes sense is regenerative braking, and the Teslas already do that.

Physics is what disallows what you are proposing.

Yes, "simple" and wrong.

This is another in a long line of perpetual motion schemes people keep bringing up here. The "air flow" you want to exploit is created by the car's motion in the first place, which was created by the car's stored energy. You increase drag and recover less than the motion cost in energy trying to use "windmill" fans attached to the car. Fundamentally the same as regenerative braking, which is used to slow the car deliberately by increasing drag and recovering electrical energy by spinning the motor as a generator using the car's momentum -- always with losses; you never get back as much as you put in.

Better yet, use pneumatic power. Tesla bumpers would actually be air bags. Tesla drivers would access each other via the tablet interface and arrange to bump each other as they drive down the highway. The air would be forced through hoses into bi-directinal turbines which would then generate electricity to charge the batteries, both on compression and decompression.

Oblong tires could do the same thing. The air would be compressed each time a high end hit the road and then air would rush back when the tire was momentarily airborne. This would result in four air pulses per revolution, per tire.

Skeptics will of course say that the impact forces would be in effect drag and so these ideas would not work. Bumping the car ahead of you would slow you down, but that by taking turns bumping and being bumped would even things out.

In the case of the oblong tires, don't forget that the tires are airborne half the time. The savings in drag and friction will even this out.

It's easier than all that. Simply use the current in the battery to form an electromagnet and have 1/2 the cars built with north front ends and 1/2 built with south front ends. Add a color coded lens to the rear hatch to denote the pole and we can all just push each other along. The cars in the sandwich could effectively coast.

I think that will work because i'm pretty sure it works with paper clips.

I bow to the more elegant solution. The answers are right in front of us in those desktop executive toys.

Your plan, however, requires that the right ratio of pushers and pullers to show up, and randy people might try to hook up with cars of the wrong polarity and that could cause big problems. You can duplicate them by playing with magnets on your desk when the boss is away.

Imagine driving down the road, minding your own business, when suddenly some fool with a positive front bumper comes up on your negative rear bumper! That car would stick to yours and you would literally be stuck with it, and a potentially creepy driver, for who knows how long.

How about a variation of your idea, using simple electrical contacts front and rear. This would enable all Teslas to hook up. Imagine three or 17 or 60 Testlas nose to tail, alternating the use of their power and sharing it via contacts in the front and rear bumpers. Cruising along at 75, all drafting each other, probably only requires the power of at most one in four cars. Clever software would alternate power of each car, say every few minutes my car would power four cars, then yours would kick in and so on. Kind of like cutting out cylinders in a gas car when all of them are not needed.

This should extend cruising distance by at least 4x.

Surely the Highway Patrol would be supportive as it would ease congestion.

It would also be popular for funeral processions.

I used to play that game on my VIC-20. I think it was called Caterpillar.

Attach a harpoon gun in front of the vehicle, shoot at the nearest truck going at right direction, get a zero charge trip.

...what? This is just as meaningful idea than any of the above.

@ Timo
Are you forgetting about regen?
= POSITIVE charge trip! :-)

Tesla themselves had solved this, a couple of years ago: they are selling a cable that goes from the cigarette lighter to the charging port, charging the battery while driving. Darn it. I can't find the item any longer... I wonder why?

Recalled because the wire gauge was too thin and got hot.

Depends on air resistance. Letting some of the compressed air wave up front flow escape through a fan-generator in the grill will help recharge a little (though not "mileage unlimited." But try scaling this up to the point you add air resistance--then the no-free-lunch arguments apply.

@ AI2112

After reading all these "helpful" responses I can feel your pain. Don't take it personal; its just the way exuberant Tesla fans like to welcome New Fans -- mercilessly!

@wcalvin, fan doesn't help there, if you can drop air resistance, then do it without the fan, you get more out of it.

you guys are cracking me up

Bumper car generators! I would love to see an animated illustration. I can imagine the late night infomercial for the Tesla free energy bumper cars, only 49 payments 1,995.00

wcalvin;
Going faster by increasing air resistance is not on. No matter what.

So?
Agree with Timo: Optimal escape paths for the bow wave would leave no opportunity for a fan generator to trickle charge.

wcalvin, you're thinking too hard about it. The only reason a wave of air is created is because the car is moving. Turning a fan is even more difficult than forcing the air around the vehicle. Turning a fan that is connected to a dynamo is even harder. Adding a fan will decrease efficiency. Adding a fan and a dynamo will decrease efficiency even more. The air flow isn't free energy because the airflow is created by the motion of the car, and the motion of the car is created by the electricity from the battery.

Hello,

Why not use a small on-board battery charging system powered by an on-board electric air compressor. The idea is this. Using separate compressed air tanks to do two separate tasks. When the batteries on the Telsa are down to, lets say, half power, the first air tank will switch on. This air tank is to turn an alternator. This alternators function is to power the electric air compressor which in turn turns a pneumatic wheel which turns another alternator which recharges the batteries on-board.

Are the engineers completely stuck on keeping the Telsa 100% gas free? If a gas powered air compressor to power turn the alternator were used would this idea be more practical?

By the way I have not patented any of my ideas. I have NO money. If any of my idea/s do work feel free to contact me.

A couple of ideas here...
Has anyone considered the fact that there is a huge potential for additional charging available that no Tesla owner has taken advantage of yet? This is the only solution that does not propose to break any laws of physics! How many times have Tesla owners given away free information about the car and company to complete strangers? Stock tips and tco advantages, as a result of which, all the curious people either invest in the company or buy the car and are therefore financially rewarded. The solution is simple, once a small crowd of people with questions has gathered around the car, put them to work! Have them push the car around the parking lot for as long as they ask questions and get answers, while regen does its thing. No laws of physics are broken (aside from a few labor laws maybe) but I really don't see that being a problem until and if the pushers begin to unionize.
Second idea involves those instances when no one is around to push the car (or once everyone is aware of Tesla, and the constant gatherings around the Model S have stopped, therefore depleting the perpetual regen potential)
Remember when you were younger and complained about something being difficult just to hear your elders proclaim that when they were young, they had to walk to school/work uphill both ways? All you have to do is find that hill and use it to drive in the opposite direction they used to walk in. So you're always driving downhill and the battery is always topped off. Simple!

@Walter Harold Marlin;

Air compressor & alternator combo has worse energy density than batteries. Way worse. No point making such thing. Using on-board gas generator for compressing air is even worse than using external generator.

Air-Piston Air Compressor On-Board Charging System

An air tank is filled with air that air turns an air-piston powered air-compressor that turns an alternator that recharges the lithium batteries. All on-board system.

The air-piston powered air-compressor powering an air tank, the air fueling air tank is refilled by the air-powered piston-air compressor.

So the air-piston powered air-compressor refills its own power supply.

Air-Piston Air Compressor On-Board Charging System

An air tank is filled with air that air turns an air-piston powered air-compressor that turns an alternator that recharges the lithium batteries. All on-board system.

The air-piston powered air-compressor powered by an air tank which is refilled by the air-powered piston-air compressor.

So the air-piston powered air-compressor refills its own power supply.

Eh? Another perpetual machine advocate? Just FYI, that doesn't work.

Man, and I thought I was the only one who was busy pulling girls' pigtails instead of paying attention during physics classes!

Do you know how alternators work? Amp up your search engine, increase the font size and start reading. Alternators are magnifycent machines. Ask Thomas Edison.

Hi all. I'm a newbie to this site but a big fan of Tesla Motors. On the subject of charging systems, why is there no solar top-up facility on the vehicles? Now I know that current solar technology is way too inefficient, but there's a company here in Australia called Dyesol, which has already developed an "artificial photosynthesis", using dye technology, incorporated into the paintwork on colorbonded steel and also glass. So the entire surface of the car becomes a solar panel. It has proven to give vast amounts more energy per square cm than conventional solar cells. The glass roof of the Model S could easily charge the batteries while being driven or simply sitting parked in the sun. Any light source in fact. Doesn't need to be full sun.

As to the batteries, the company "M-Phase technologies" has developed Nano-battery technology with power on demand. The power is produced only when a signal is sent to the battery. This is not future technology. They have products on the market right now.
Imagine the Model S with a range of 3000 km per charge instead of 500 km.
Elon, I suggest you Google both companies and have a look.

Walter the Dim;
All the energy stored by the first fill-up gets used in moving the car. There is no extra. There are numerous losses. Turning an alternator will reduce range, and return less than is used to crank it. Now go away.

Simple. My first post on the Sept. 22 was to get someone at Tesla 'Motors' attention.

There is only ONE alternator. The first air tank is used to run an air-piston motor air compressor. The air piston motor air compressor turns the one and only alternator, the alternator's purpose is recharge the batteries on-board or for the auto inside (air conditioning/heat). I'll let Tesla figure that part out.

Before the air tank no long has enough pressure to run the air compressor the air compressor switches to its own power supply air tank and filling power supply air tank .

There is only ONE alternator. The first air tank is used to run an air-piston motor air compressor. The air piston motor air compressor turns the one and only alternator, the alternator's purpose is to recharge the batteries on-board or for the auto inside examples-(air conditioning/heat).

Before the air tank no long has enough pressure to run the air compressor the air compressor switches to its own power supply air tank, filling its own power supply air tank.

Visualize.


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