Forum

Bli med i fellesskapet
RegistrerLogg inn

Data-gathering privacy: opt out?

It appears that my previous thread is dead (shows up in Google search, but won't open, and doesn't appear in the forum as far as I can see).

I am about to install solar on my house. I'd love to buy a Tesla. I like them from a design and engineering perspective, and appreciate that the company is willing to cut its own trail rather than continue to follow the beaten path of every other car company.

However, I will not buy a vehicle that records crash (and particularly pre-crash) data such as speed, steering angle, yaw rate/angle, acceleration rate, throttle/brake application, etc. With BMW and Mercedes-Benz installing EDRs in their vehicles as of the last year or two, I believe that VW/Audi are the only manufacturers remaining to choose from.

I know that Tesla allows owners to opt-out and disable their cars from transmitting other data to the manufacturer for those who value their privacy. Legislation has been introduced to require the EDR "black boxes" to have a manual disable provision by the owner. While I don't think there is much likelihood of the bill being passed into law, with consumers rapidly becoming more wary of digital data gathering and privacy concerns, might Tesla voluntarily apply its "leading edge" spirit to this issue and configure their EDRs such that owners would have a choice as to disable them?

I think opt-out is an important feature to offer. My brother-in-law is interested in Tesla, but is put off buy privacy issues.

That was my biggest concern about buying a new car too.
Privacy, in general, has been a neglected issue for far too long.

Black box isn't privacy breaching device, it is safety device to figure out what went wrong. IMO that should be required by international law to any car, old or new. You might find out other privacy issues in Tesla cars, but not wanting that is just paranoia.

Or maybe you want to hide the fact that you are breaking the law when you crash and you know that you are breaking the law so often that it is highly likely that you are when you suffer a crash and that is then obvious to CSI? Because that's the only reason I see to not want that device in your car.

Josh_D - Where did you see in writing that you can opt out of Tesla's data gathering? I've read their Telematics Service Agreement many times and can find no opt out clause.

That was my understanding. I haven't researched it exhaustively, as I haven't been in the market for a Tesla due to the EDR gathering crash (and pre-crash) data.

Timo, it isn't installed as a privacy breaching device in the sense of that being its designed purpose. They originated back in the 90s as tools for crash reconstruction, particularly with respect to airbag employment (and monitoring, probably to ensure that errant deployments weren't being a problem. Maybe a little bit of legal CYA to that end, too, just like in Toyota's "unintended acceleration" lawsuits" debunked by EDR data.) The effect, though, is that they provide enough data to reconstruct pretty close to every input you made leading up to the crash, and in a severe crash resulting in injuries, there is a good chance that a lawyer will subpoena that data in civil (and/or possibly criminal) court.

Yes, I absolutely am breaking the law often. Almost all of us are. First of all, that's beside the point; my issue that is that I don't want to be watched every second that I'm behind the wheel of my car. This argument of "you have nothing to worry about if you have nothing to hide" doesn't hold water.

From a practical perspective, what if, just for example, I'm going 55 mph in a 45 mph zone, just like most people do routinely. That isn't reckless (in most situations). In fact, it's a norm. Let's say a pedestrian walks out in front of you, you don't see him in time (or simply can't stop in time), and you hit him. Who's at fault? Who's going to appear to have deep enough pockets, riding around in his relatively expensive luxury-car-of-the-future to be worth some lawyer suing, regardless of whether it's right or not? Don't forget, if you're going 1-mph over the speed limit, you were breaking the law.

...but regardless, I wouldn't want to be watched or Monday-morning quarterbacked whether or not I ever exceeded the speed limit, and I won't be buying any vehicle that records such data.

Yes, I absolutely am breaking the law often. Almost all of us are.
...
From a practical perspective, what if, just for example, I'm going 55 mph in a 45 mph zone, just like most people do routinely. That isn't reckless (in most situations). In fact, it's a norm

Not me and no, it is not a norm.

Let's say a pedestrian walks out in front of you, you don't see him in time (or simply can't stop in time), and you hit him. Who's at fault?

You, apparently. Maybe pedestrian also. It can be both, you know.

Well then, legal eagle, just stay in the right lane and don't worry about it, I guess.

It's pretty much a norm in the 5 states I've lived in and 40 that I've been to, and in most other countries I've driven in (often much more than the equivalent of 10 mph, I might add). Here where I live, even the local LEOs routinely pass me on the highway when I'm doing 70 in a 50. It certainly isn't dangerous (in most situations--obviously there are scenarios where your speed could be less than the speed limit and still dangerous).

That's all beside the point anyway, though. I'm not going to drive any differently, and I'm not going to drive anything with an EDR that can't be disabled, and I still wouldn't even if I adhered strictly (not even 1 mph over, ever) to all speed limits.

I am suggesting that, as Tesla has taken an industry leadership position of sorts in other ways, it should spearhead an effort to protect data privacy by allowing owners to control what data their cars collect.


X Deutschland Site Besuchen