Per Elon at All Things D...after tomorrow's, around June 20 is next (presumably the "fifth" in the trilogy)
Sorrt, we couldn't make it. I was just too exhausted.
So glad you enjoyed the food and that you'll be enjoying it for the forseeable future.
Warmest regards to all,
It cannot be a battery swap. Too much capital involved. Batteries, tools, human...
Metal-air, ok, I can image those batteries for sale in gas-stations. I surely would buy one.
I will laugh uncontrollably when the demonstration is just the 120kw chargers, and the "under your nose" announcement turns out to be enhanced voice commands. :-)
Dpazdan, youre dumb
It could be the rumored McDonald's Interface Technology. You won't be laughing then cos nobody laughs at enhanced sandwich control.
Shorts beware. Everyone knows battery and chargingare huge topics. So too, are the electrical utility implications of giant capacitors around the country. Ie, hurricane electricity demand. Earnings and sales mysterious because he plans to reveal them. Shorts, please keep shorting so i can watch you squeeze.
@riceuguy | JUNE 16, 2013 "I will laugh uncontrollably when the demonstration is just the 120kw chargers, and the "under your nose" announcement turns out to be enhanced voice commands. :-)"
A = TSLA −$30
@"Longer the better | JUNE 16, 2013 Shorts beware…. huge topics.”
B = TSLA +$30
First of all, I take back my original comment on Elon leaving Tesla. After he spoke about the demonstation that will happen, I doubt it's anything but another positive announcement.
Ok hear me out on this. I think one of the reasons they just upped their charging stations to 120kw was in preparation for this weeks announcement of 500+ mile batteries and battery swap technology demonstation. For instance, you plan a trip from Chicago to Toronto, which is approximately 500 miles each way. You drive halfway to a supercharger station in Lansing and instead of waiting to charge up your battery you swap it out with a 500+ battery. The battery is enough to get you to Toronto and back to the Supercharger station, where your original battery is put back into your car, fully charged to take you home. Doing so would save you tons of waiting time since it will only be the time it takes to swap the battery. Also, you save on the amount of times you have to stop. This is HUGE thing because right now, no matter how you look at it, you still have to stop more often that most gas cars to charge up the vehicle on long distance travels. So if Tesla does implement this (extended battery swaps) they should do it for a small convenience fee that is charged to customers, to help pay for the robotic systems, batteries, etc. that installed at the SC stations. This is what I hope they do..! So this sort of combines some of the theories together that have been discussed earlier in the thread.
This is what I am hoping for as well. If they offered this type of temporary large battery rental at service centers it would make a trip from Kansas City, MO to Chattanooga, TN possible without the long wait for superchargers to finally penetrate the center of the country.
It's going to be so funny on Thursday when they show Elon, in the driver's seat slowly reach over and touch the glovebox button to reveal... a Keurig!!
I heard second hand that Elon had indicated he was going to show how to charge the Tesla S in five minutes. I don't know if that is true.
Swappable batteries would not be Elon's path because swappable is essentially a work around the fast charging challenge. Elon would want to solve the fast charging problem, and that would be a major announcement. I've seen fast charging solutions out there using carbonized LMO cathodes, but nothing that appeared ready for prime time (production). We will see,,,
A lot of cool things in a lab environment just never get out of the lab...
I paid 2 grand for the supercharger modification and I hope the announcement revolves around them. Get them built up around the country and if they charge faster that would be a big plus. Battery swapping seems like a huge logistical nightmare with very high initial costs. Looking at the new supercharger network, Tesla is planning many more locations than the initial plan so I see that as their main focus, not swapping. I for one don't consider battery swapping a good idea at this time.
@jamesd567 ...who is the second hand person....ur buddy at your local drinking hole?? Just kidding. I think it's a plugin battery for the frunk which can be rented out or bought depending on the customer's preference. The key phrase Elon used in his tweet was that you can recharge your car faster than you can fill the gas tank "throughout" the country. I think that rules out battery swap given there is no plan at this time to build battery swap infrastructure throughout the country any time soon. So, logic dictates it's a plugin battery to extend miles in short order when needed.
I admire your tenacity. It'll be such a satisfying moment for you when he says, "Now, I'm going to swap out this Decaf Donut Shop Breakfast Blend with a K-cup of Earl Grey Tea."
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the CCI designed by Tesla is refrigerated and holds a thermos for cream. Why else would it cost $1250.00?
How about something like that:
We all know that one of the limitation for high powered charging is the cable size. So to get to 5 minutes charge it would become big and heavy and unusable, not to say dangerous.
So why not have a battery swap robot, that would remove the battery from the car, flash charge it using a an appropriate connection (of the same type that connects the battery to the electric motor inside the car), and then put the battery back into the car.
New technology high capacity battery ( or other storage medium), same format and connections as current so backwards compatible, and capable of much higher rate of recharge. So will make everyone happy, can be deployed throughout the country, and is something no one has yet seen. It is also under your nose, as an expression and more literally under your bottom. Greater range, fewer refueling stops, so, time wise, refuels faster than an ice. Same kind of logic as the prior financial slight of hand. No frunk battery because of weight and complete lack of electrical infrastructure, the handling would be significantly different and may be dangerous, no main battery swap like better place for all the reasons already mentioned.
It actually takes 20 seconds to charge the Model S at a supercharger. 20 seconds on top of your usual routine: - park the car - plug in 10 seconds - walk away from the car - toilet, coffee, lunch / sandwich, some shopping - come back to the car - unplug 10 seconds - go
All those hallucinogenic dreams of battery swap and high density unicorn dust-air batteries that the Model S will got a shot from just under your nose ... are just that!
* "will got" -> "will get"
Why would you have to take the battery out of the car? I would think if super-fast supercharging were possible it would be robotically attached to the battery under the car. It would work with the "right under your nose" comment which is the only comment currently steering me away from main-pack battery swapping.
Anyone know the size of the cable from chargerport to the battery enclosure? If it is oversize compared to the supercharger cable, then they have left room for supersupercharging.
It seems to me that two of the things that we know Tesla is working on are aimed at making batt-swapping unnecessary.
First, we know they are working on increasing the energy density in future batteries. Elon mentioned a 400-500 mile battery a couple months ago, but didn't give any details.
Second, we know they are working on improving vehicle charge times through battery chemistry and by optimizing the superchargers to take full-advantage of what that chemistry will allow.
I have a spare battery for my phone, but I never use it. It's easier just to recharge the thing every night. If Tesla succeeds in making enough progress in the two areas mentioned above, then there won't even be a need for batt-swapping.
Technically (if my spare battery is charged,) I can "FULLY CHARGE" my cell phone in SECONDS just by changing the battery. But I NEVER do. Its not even inconvenient to swap the thing out, but I just don't do it cos its easier to plug it in when I get home.
Maybe humans are internally wired with an aversion to batt-swapping. Maybe they just intrinsically know that a car shouldn't require regular dis-assembly.
And another thing - neither my cell phone nor my laptop comes with the equivalent of a range-extending frunk-pack battery.
Thursday's demo? It'll be the new 500-mile battery being supercharged to 200+ miles in 3-10 minutes!
Almost everyone I know has an external battery pack for their iPhone. (I use it just a few times a year when I can't find a socket and my battery is running low.) Also laptops have external battery packs if you need to work for longer time without a socket to charge it.
No breakthroughs are necessary for the frunk-pack. If so, why didn't they include this option from the outset? They could have designed this in from the beginning.
Ok guys...first, Elon knows how to word things. And this is a written tweet. So it wasn't off the cuff. He has to think about how to phrase it.
The tweet says "Recharge"....not swap.
"Model S"...which means today's model. Not Model X, or Gen III of the future.
In less time to fill up your gas tank. Which takes most people 4-6 minutes. But I'd be pleased as pie with 10 minutes.
The only 3 things that would do this is:
1.) far faster charging than 120kW using more output (but I can not imagine that being safe or possible)
2.) Some sort of "add on" metal air battery which charges the main pack (ie all the talk about aluminum air batteries)
3.) A "add on" supercapacitor that takes charge at a super high rate and then charges the main battery pack.
Now I was watching his Oxford presentation and he seemed to imply such a supercapacitor could be made, based on the recent advances in photonics, to create an unnatural, on the molecular level, supercapacitor.
So I'm guessing it's number 3.
If it IS number 3, TSLA stock will soar to new heights because the licensing fees of such world changing technology would be tremendous and would be transferable to all transportation and many, many industries.
Number 2 would also be impressive as well.
All I know is I'm going to sit back with some popcorn and watch the demonstration.
@davidg11....that is pretty good...if #3 is the deal, it's truly revolutionary....the issue of charging convenience will be completely moot!!! I think I better buy Tesla stocks I....I wouldn't really be surprised if that is the case because a superconductor is one of the few -- if not the only way -- one can fully charge his electric vehicle than a conventional gas car....
faster than a conventional gas vehicle I mean.....
Lots of good thoughts everyone...very enjoyable.
I believe that it's important to remember how Elon thinks:
1) The right question - what is the right question with regard to recharging speed?
2) Reason from first principles - when innovating try not to use analogies but rather start with what you know for sure and progress forward.
3) Always question - what are you forgetting, how can it be faster, what will make it a more compelling product.
Where that gets us, I don't know (Hey, I'm not Elon) but maybe it will spur some new ideas. ;-)
@davidg11 - I suppose Elon knows how to word things. But don't forget, this is the guy who said you could own a Model S for $500 per month, deriving that number by taking the $1,000+ monthly payment and SUBTRACTING the value of the gas you didn't buy, the time you didn't spend filling your tank, the taxes you didn't pay, etc. So let's see: it takes me at least an hour to charge from empty to full, subtract a half-hour because I don't need to fill it all the way up, another 10 minutes because I didn't have to pay, five more minutes because there is no place to wash my windshield at the supercharger station, 10 more minutes because I didn't get gasoline on my hands and consequently didn't have to wash them. That's 5 minutes, faster than I can fill a (big) gas tank!
@DouglasR: Funny, but in all fairness, the Tesla financing page made it clear that, to get a correct estimate, you should select the circumstances that apply to you. Elon made the same points in interviews.
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