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Supercharger event September 24

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/13/tesla-supercharger-network-september-...

Speculation?

Looking forward to concrete information...

O

Cool, that's only ten days away.

This is more news than just supercharging. I saw battery swapping on the list of possibilities. I wish they had more details about this stuff before I locked in my car.

It all pure speculation right now.

Since we are speculating anyway: My money is on the supercharging (half hour = half battery), probably powered by solar and/or wind (would require some storage like super capacitors or local hydrogen generation+fuel cell, or they just feed to the grid and take from the grid like most solar installations). I do not expect battery swapping from Tesla. It's not the question whether personally I think it's a good idea or not, I'm just pretty confident that Elon has his reasons not to go that route.

Although, obviously, the swapping solution would be nicely compatible with solar: Relatively slow charging is good for the battery, and energy storage is required anyway. So bottom line: All bets are off...

I can bet on no battery swap, otherwise we wouldn't need dual charges in S to take care of high current charging.

ideal case:
maybe they do a cooperation with "better place",
they are the founder of the swapping-think...

Sergiyz,

The dual chargers are so you can use the full capacity from the home power wall connector and J1772 high power stations as they come available. The guys on the cross country tour charged using a high power (68A) J1772 charger at Clipper Creek's facility.

The supercharger doesn't use the onboard chargers at all. It uses 10 chargers to dump high voltage dc straight into the battery pack.

We had heard a rumor about Harris Ranch half way between San Francisco and LA hosting a supercharger. Harris was kind enough to verify the rumor. And if you haven't been there, it's a good place to have a cold beer and a nice steak.

Can someone go over to Harris ranch and check out the aliens?

Swapping requires a bay and lift with robo-rig to manipulate the 400+ Kg. Not happening at Supercharger stops.

My guess is that they will be announcing super charger locations along I5, I90 and I10. If they are spaced at say 150+/- miles apart it would be easy to travel long distances even with a 60 kw pack.
I believe that you can use the supercharger as often as you like because there is protection against overheating of the battery. Although it will charge at full rate for the lower 80% of charge, it will slow down considerably after that to protect the battery.
We will know for sure in a few days.

Add I95 to complete the rectangle.

I believe that you can use the supercharger as often as you like because there is protection against overheating of the battery.

Tesla recommends you use the superchargers no more than 2% of the time.

@Schlermie

Where is that recommendation? I hadn't heard a specific amount before now.

Tesla recommends you use the superchargers no more than 2% of the time.

If the car is driven 10,000 miles per year and is recharged every 100 miles, that's 100 charging cycles. With this scenario, the supercharger should only be used twice.

@Teo,
I overheard one of the Tesla staff talking about it while I was at the Menlo Park store a while ago. Apparently, this is the rule of thumb recommendation they were coached to tell customers about how often you should supercharge. He didn't say anything about the ramifications for exceeding 2%, and I'm sure that's a complex answer.

If that's really the case, then it makes supercharging just about useless and road trips would be out of the question. Just the minimum amount of road trips that I take would use 15 or 20 supercharges over a year. (Not that there are likely to be any superchargers along the routes I take).

Think of it as crack for your car. Great when you need a quick boost for extra range, but likely to decrease its life expectancy, punctuated by the occasional sudden death.

If I charge my car every night, that's 365x per year. So I have ~7x per year supercharges, right?

I'm sure, that it will be possible to adjust the amount of juice per given time... would make sense.
If You -for example- load with 50% of full power, it's not that stressy for the accupack

Teoatawki,

Assuming that the 2% is correct. I'm unconvinced. Also that might be referring to a full one-hour charge. A half hour charge may be much less stressful. Elon said that the plan was "drive three hours, charge for half an hour, drive for another three hours, charge for half an hour". That seems to conflict with the only 2%.

Whity,

Well, if you reduce the charge level, then there is no point in having a supercharger in the first place.

I get very excited about this announcement. For many reasons:

1. Very soon, Tesla Model S owners can take long distance road trips (or cross country trips) practically eliminating range anxiety in just about the same time as those who still travel with fossil fuels.

2. It will feel like going into a VIP-club lounge when pulling your Tesla into the "Tesla-Supercharge-Spaceships", feeling awkward for those with gas cars at these filthy pump areas with spilled Diesel und oil on the concrete, having to spend a fortune for this scarce and expensive stuff. This will be the best marketing for electric drive for so many people who still wonder if electric cars are useful.

3. They will most likely use solar power, locally sourced to charge quite huge batteries in the ground, so that they are 100% CO2-free and they can provide the DC-charge right out the battery (battery-to-battery-charging).

4. Your car will park in the shade underneath the "spaceships" solar panel roof while you catch refreshments, go shopping or go out to eat.

I personnaly do not believe they will offer battery swaps: First, I don't think that many people love the idea to swap "your own" battery for one that might be much older, weaker or with already decreased capacity. And secondly, as Tesla provides warranty plans on the cars battery (8 years), how should they keep this up, if you keep changing the thing all the time.

Concerning the stress for the battery, I do not believe that DC-Charging is such a big issue in these days anymore: There are a lot of new notebooks out that nowadays provide rapid-charges (80% of charge in 30 minutes) ALL the time - and they are not liquid cooled and have advances thermic-control systems like Teslas battery.

So to sum up: One of the most common concern of people about EVs is their range anxiety for the rather rare occasions they want to go on a holiday trip or visit friends in another state. Many people even choose to stick with petrol just for these maybe less than 3% of all trips they take in a year.

With the Tesla Supercharger Network and the range of the Model S itself, Elon is closing this last argument against EVs for ever. In my opinion, this is almost as important as building the Model S in the first place.

Lars,

I don't believe there will be batter swaps either. Elon has indicated as much recently. Battery swaps were talked about in 2009 and the Model S was designed to allow rapid battery change, but as a practical matter there is just too much money tied up in the batteries for swapping. If it ever happens, it will be after the next three models are in production.

Lars, - One of the most common concern of people about EVs is their range anxiety for the rather rare occasions they want to go on a holiday trip

I don't know about this one. (It's the "rather rare" part I'm taking issue with, not the "it's a common concern" part). I've driven on three holiday trips so far this year, each around 1200 miles round trip. Perhaps my definition of rare isn't the same as yours. Because it will be much less expensive to drive the Model S (even with the maintenance added) I expect to do more driving than before.

Jerry, this is exactly what I meant. Before the era of superchargers at highway road stops, people would argue, that they wanted an electric car for their everyday drives, but figured they could not use it for longer road trips. I believe, the Tesla Supercharging Network will eliminate this problem. And it will even bring a huge advantage to those of us, who regularly drive longer distances and trips.

Lars,

I agree with you on the "but figured they could not use it for longer road trips" and the supercharger will eliminate this problem (unless it's really true that you can only use it 2% of the time, in which case they might as well not do it).

As real EVs become more popular (and right now the only one is Tesla), holiday trips will increase because it will cost $50 rather than $500 in gas.

My prediction on the Supercharger stations:

100% Solar Powered - to defeat the long tail pipe arguement.

Off-Grid - stores capacity on its own batteries/capacitors for 10 - 20 recharges. Removes the requirement to have high cost grid electrical connections in remote areas. Hence the Spaceship reference (they can just drop these where ever they feel like without local infrastructure). Remember Tesla was already developing a smaller version of this with Solar City for off-grid houses, just need to scale it up. Elon loves this style of engineering (battery pack, Falcon rockets, etc.)

Design - I am not a graphics guy, so I will not even try to sketch something. How about a large circular roof (think crop circle) covered in solar panels, tilted at about 10-15 degrees so some panels are always getting optimum sun and rain runs off. Underneath is 4 - 6 parking spots all with connectors. Hopefully more people can plug in than charge at the same time and the system will just queue.

Located along freeways at the exits with the most food/shopping. Tesla may even charge hosts to have a Supercharge since it will attract customers and not cost the host anything to build.

I do not think they will have them in actual cities yet, but they really need to. If you drive from city to city and arrive with very low charge, you might need a Supercharge to handle your days activities before settling in for the night.

Communication system - I think they will have some way to check availability/reserve from the Model S, but this will probably be a software update to follow.

Plug - Elon has already talked plenty about this. If anyone has used a CHaDeMo DC QC, you can see why Elon hates it. It is like wrestling a python.

Did I miss anything? I am I way off base?

kalikgod,

About the cities. I would assume that the last highway supercharge would take care of the driving after you arrive in the city. Then you'd to a standard charge at your destination (or a range charge if you were heading out the next morning).

I really hope the 2% rule isn't true, because that defeats the entire point of supercharging if you can't do it when you need it.

kalikgod,

100% Solar Powered - to defeat the long tail pipe arguement.

I agree. Although this argument:

Off-Grid - stores capacity on its own batteries/capacitors for 10 - 20 recharges. Removes the requirement to have high cost grid electrical connections in remote areas.

in is somewhat refuted by this one:

Located along freeways at the exits with the most food/shopping.

Where there's food and shopping, there's also a grid connection. Or would you assume that a grid connection for a restaurant and shop does not necessarily offer the kind of juice that is required to feed the superchargers? Maybe you have a point there.

The 50 kW CHeDeMo QCs takes over $100k worth of grid connection equipment. Only super markets or larger industrial/commercial enterprises even have large enough grid connections to spare 50 kW, let along 90 kW of a Supercharger. You don't want to lights to go out at the business because a Model S plugs in.

If they are storing energy in the Supercharger, they could get away with a much lower current grid connection. People could still argue that some of the electrons going into the battery pack are not completely renewable. I think Elon is looking to defeat that argument.


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